Anyone care to remember?

[worker201]

Note: Communism ain't any better

Unfortunately, this argument is usually followed by "so we'll just stick with big oil and Microsoft and GM and Monsanto".  People need to start realizing that there is not just one way to do things.  And not just 2 ways either.  I like to point at Linux as an example of how a market can become incredibly successful by distributing free products.  Of course there's more to it than free products - but the point is that you can distribute consumer goods to a wide userbase without being a dickhead.

[Calum]

i agree. people taking the time to engage their own brains and remain openminded whilst doing so is what's needed in this world.

[H_TeXMeX_H]

What's funny is I overheard some of my classmates today talking about Linux and preffering Window$ to Linux with a cryptic ... "Joe: I wouldn't use Linux. Bob: Yeah some people are crazy." ... To translate the rather incoherent zombie-talk I'm used to ... this means you have to be 'special' or 'different' or 'weird' to use Linux instead of the ever popular Window$. Just to bring the level of stupidity surrounding me to a climax they ended the conversation with commenting on the fact that the .WMV format is superior to the .AVI format. Sometimes I feel like so engulfed by the stupidity around me that it almost pulls me in ... but somehow I manage to resist it.

[Orethrius]

Ya know, what's "crazy" to me is that you didn't join in with something like "Yeah, I can't believe how some people don't follow mob mentality and just conform to what everybody else does.  What a sucky concept; I mean, we TOTALLY should still be under British rule and all."  I'm also shocked that you didn't show them a WMV9 and AVI side-by-side, with no identification of the source files other than the page source.  "Tell me, which is better, the one with the crappy quality and framedrops on the left, or the one with the superior quality and full playback on the right?"  It's sad how people think Microsoft still has half a clue about the standards they once supported.

[Pathos]

Sorry, can't agree.

If it was just that, the most shining example of capitalism would be the thug with the protection racket.  He provides nothing, yet holds a very profitable position in the market.

A business runs by providing goods and/or services to customers.

Business that does not rely on customer loyalty falls out of the capitalistic model. Capitalistic businesses in theory should be moderated by the decisions made by customers on where to spend their money.

This does not work in situations where:
1. Customers are not appropriately informed (eg information withheld by tobacco companies).
2. Customers do not fully research the background of the product (eg child labour).
3. Customers do not have a choice (eg monopolies, illegal thug practises).

That is why we NEED laws that protect against these. They are flaws in the Capitalistic theory.

[Refalm]

I'm also shocked that you didn't show them a WMV9 and AVI side-by-side, with no identification of the source files other than the page source.

Or better: the difference between QuickTime HD movie and WMV :rolleyes:

[H_TeXMeX_H]

Ya know, what's "crazy" to me is that you didn't join in with something like "Yeah, I can't believe how some people don't follow mob mentality and just conform to what everybody else does. What a sucky concept; I mean, we TOTALLY should still be under British rule and all." I'm also shocked that you didn't show them a WMV9 and AVI side-by-side, with no identification of the source files other than the page source. "Tell me, which is better, the one with the crappy quality and framedrops on the left, or the one with the superior quality and full playback on the right?" It's sad how people think Microsoft still has half a clue about the standards they once supported.

I kinda felt like expressing myself in a similar way, maybe I should have. Unfortunately there were no computers in the room for the avi/wmv test. As for the sarcasm ... I doubt they would have gotten it, even though I'm quite sarcastic 90 % of the time when talking to people, they just don't fucking get it. It's always good for a laugh when I say something ridiculously sarcastic and people believe it

[WMD]

Never mind that AVI isn't a format.  It's a wrapper.  Many of the AVI files today are some form of MPEG4.

[worker201]

Business that does not rely on customer loyalty falls out of the capitalistic model. Capitalistic businesses in theory should be moderated by the decisions made by customers on where to spend their money.

This does not work in situations where:
1. Customers are not appropriately informed (eg information withheld by tobacco companies).
2. Customers do not fully research the background of the product (eg child labour).
3. Customers do not have a choice (eg monopolies, illegal thug practises).

That is why we NEED laws that protect against these. They are flaws in the Capitalistic theory.

Your first point above is the key.  Product information is withheld from the consumers on purpose.  Tobacco companies are just a well-known example.  But trade secrets, unlisted ingredients, false statistical claims, and marketing spin are also part of the swindle.  That's why the US market is not really capitalism, because true Adam Smith capitalism requires full honest disclosure.  What we have is some sort of Technocratic market, where the withholding of information drives the consumer.  This is the sort of market that Microsoft has flourished in - nobody demands or even wants the real truth about the products they buy.  Which I think is both sad and ethically wrong.

[H_TeXMeX_H]

So what can we do about it ?

[worker201]

Live off an allowance from your mom, and start a company that gives away stuff for free.

[Calum]

live in trees and grow our own carrots.