Author Topic: CPU wars  (Read 3182 times)

solemnwarning

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 747
  • Kudos: 338
    • http://www.solemnwarning.net
CPU wars
« on: 18 April 2006, 19:49 »
I have written a simple benchmark program in C that will work out how many floating point calculations a UNIX system can do in 10 seconds and attached the source to this post, as the results of several machines Here show, AMD Athlon CPUs pwn and intel sucks, ffs my 2.2GHz Athlon XP did nearly 6x the work of a 3.2GHz P4, and my 1.8GHz Athlon XP does over 4x the work, why do people even buy intel processors when they suck this much?

EDIT: Can admin enable .c, .h, .cpp and .hpp file extentions for upload?

[verwijderd door de beheerder]
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
 Version: 3.1
 GCS/CM d- s+:+ a--- C++ UL++++>$ P+ L+++ !E W++ !N !o !K-- w !O !M !V PS+ PE- !Y !PGP !t !5 !X !R tv b+ DI+ !D G e- h !r y-
 ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

piratePenguin

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,027
  • Kudos: 775
    • http://piratepenguin.is-a-geek.com/~declan/
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #1 on: 18 April 2006, 20:01 »
I get 21,431,390 with my Athlon XP 2600+, but I'm compiling mozilla now so that's not really accurate...
You'd need to make sure all the machines are running basically the same stuff (or the benchmark process mightn't get the same scheduling time). T'wouldn't be a bad idea to make the benchmark log the result in a text file and pass "init=/path/to/benchmark" to the kernel after rebooting. Then the process will run with only the kernel running, and when it's finished you'll have to reset the computer (might even get a kernel panic). Then you can read the result from where you logged it.

They're still not running the same kernel... But it's basically the same.

This benchmark doesn't show that much though.. I somehow doubt Intel chips are this bad overall.........
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

WMD

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,525
  • Kudos: 391
    • http://www.dognoodle99.cjb.net
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #2 on: 18 April 2006, 21:07 »
Floating point performance has never been Intel's strength...but these numbers don't seem to make sense as you have them.

Here's my results, anyway...
PowerPC G4 1.5GHz, Mac OS X 10.4.5
32572406
33345288
33165002  (three tries)

I'll get my Pentium 4 done in a little bit.
My BSOD gallery
"Yes there's nothing wrong with going around being rude and selfish, killing people and fucking married women, but being childish is a cardinal sin around these parts." -Aloone_Jonez

WMD

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,525
  • Kudos: 391
    • http://www.dognoodle99.cjb.net
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #3 on: 18 April 2006, 21:16 »
Ok, Pentium 4 2.8GHz, Linux 2.4.29:
16519493
16516455
16002699

Perhaps you should try a benchmark that does integer math, too.
My BSOD gallery
"Yes there's nothing wrong with going around being rude and selfish, killing people and fucking married women, but being childish is a cardinal sin around these parts." -Aloone_Jonez

H_TeXMeX_H

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 1,988
  • Kudos: 494
    • http://draconishinobi.50webs.com/
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #4 on: 18 April 2006, 21:28 »
Benchmarks are usually done with games like UT2004 or the like ... floating point will give you different results. I don't really believe them myself, I've seen lots of benchmarks with games like UT2004 and the results do favor AMD, but not like this ... it's a more subtle difference.

Examples: (note that most of these were done on Window$ due to the fact that most games don't run on Linux ... and wine kinda blows)

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/reviews/hardware/processorsmemory/0,39024015,39164010,00.htm

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1854918,00.asp

And with dual-core AMD is definitely superior:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10442_7-6389077-9.html?tag=btn

for more just google "AMD Intel benchmark"

Yeah AMD is better in performance ... so I'm thinking of buying one for my next computer ... building will commence in about 1-2 months ... but there is only one thing holding me back from buying AMD as opposed to Intel ... heat management.

I'd like a guarrantee that my processor (I'll buy the best and probably most expensive one available) won't burn if the cooling system fails. (I'm thinking of putting in liquid cooling just cuz fans get clogged with dust so quickly, and it's a pain to clean it ... my GPU fan got clogged and I got random crashes while playing games) From what evidence I've seen Intel does far better in preventing CPU meltdown/burning ... any evidence to the contrary ? I need hard evidence, like articles and benchmarks, not just you telling me AMD has no heat problems whatsoever.

P.S. All articles I've seen on this issue have favored Intel ... and include very nice pictures of burned AMD CPUs and the motherboard damage that incurrs ... no burned Intel CPU pictures at all.

piratePenguin

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,027
  • Kudos: 775
    • http://piratepenguin.is-a-geek.com/~declan/
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #5 on: 18 April 2006, 23:18 »
Oh... k.. that init thing does not want to work for me (time appears to be going slower with it...).

Isn't PCMark the thing for benchmarking CPUs?
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

Aloone_Jonez

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,090
  • Kudos: 954
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #6 on: 18 April 2006, 23:37 »
Best of all write it for DOS and then it'll be more acurate as it's only doing one task - your benchmark program.
This is not a Windows help forum, however please do feel free to sign up and agree or disagree with our views on Microsoft.

Oh and FUCKMicrosoft! :fu:

Lead Head

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,508
  • Kudos: 534
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #7 on: 19 April 2006, 00:35 »
Quote from: H_TeXMeX_H
Benchmarks are usually done with games like UT2004 or the like ... floating point will give you different results. I don't really believe them myself, I've seen lots of benchmarks with games like UT2004 and the results do favor AMD, but not like this ... it's a more subtle difference.

Examples: (note that most of these were done on Window$ due to the fact that most games don't run on Linux ... and wine kinda blows)

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/reviews/hardware/processorsmemory/0,39024015,39164010,00.htm

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1854918,00.asp

And with dual-core AMD is definitely superior:
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10442_7-6389077-9.html?tag=btn

for more just google "AMD Intel benchmark"

Yeah AMD is better in performance ... so I'm thinking of buying one for my next computer ... building will commence in about 1-2 months ... but there is only one thing holding me back from buying AMD as opposed to Intel ... heat management.

I'd like a guarrantee that my processor (I'll buy the best and probably most expensive one available) won't burn if the cooling system fails. (I'm thinking of putting in liquid cooling just cuz fans get clogged with dust so quickly, and it's a pain to clean it ... my GPU fan got clogged and I got random crashes while playing games) From what evidence I've seen Intel does far better in preventing CPU meltdown/burning ... any evidence to the contrary ? I need hard evidence, like articles and benchmarks, not just you telling me AMD has no heat problems whatsoever.

P.S. All articles I've seen on this issue have favored Intel ... and include very nice pictures of burned AMD CPUs and the motherboard damage that incurrs ... no burned Intel CPU pictures at all.


Those were the Athlon/Athlon XP, the Athlon 64s dont burn up, tomshardware has a video of the Athlon 64 vs. P4. AMDs also have a lower thermal shutdown threshold, typicaly around 60*C instead of the 90+*C of intels wich would less likely damage the mobo, A64s are also easier to cool. an A64 3000+ Puts out 50 watts of heat at the most, an FX-60 tops at around 90-100 watts, why the P4s go muvh over 100 watts.
sig.

noob

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 224
  • Kudos: 74
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #8 on: 19 April 2006, 00:45 »
The pics of burned CPU's are after the thermal shutdown has been disabled. My Athlon 64 3400 over heated and turned off and no problems. Look at it this way: a game that recomends a P4 2.2 gig, or an Athlon XP 2200 is saying the recomended is a 2.2 gig Intel or a 1.8 AMD. I buy for performance, not cooling ability. As long as there is a large heatsink on it it will be fine.
Windows XP Service Pack 2. Because we couldn't be arsed the first time.

Windows 98 Second Edition. Look, now you don't need that bloody CD to install new hardware.

Windows Vista. Even your computer knows you have a small penis.

Windows Blackcomb. We are planning the OS after Vista, which is allready a year late.

Windows ME, the Marmite Operating System.

XP Mobile. Take your errors with you.

piratePenguin

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,027
  • Kudos: 775
    • http://piratepenguin.is-a-geek.com/~declan/
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #9 on: 19 April 2006, 01:48 »
The Intel Core Duo's look nice.
"What you share with the world is what it keeps of you."
 - Noah And The Whale: Give a little love



a poem by my computer, Macintosh Vigilante
Macintosh amends a damned around the requested typewriter. Macintosh urges a scarce design. Macintosh postulates an autobiography. Macintosh tolls the solo variant. Why does a winter audience delay macintosh? The maker tosses macintosh. Beneath female suffers a double scum. How will a rat cube the heavier cricket? Macintosh calls a method. Can macintosh nest opposite the headache? Macintosh ties the wrong fairy. When can macintosh stem the land gang? Female aborts underneath macintosh. Inside macintosh waffles female. Next to macintosh worries a well.

mobrien_12

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,138
  • Kudos: 711
    • http://www.geocities.com/mobrien_12
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #10 on: 19 April 2006, 03:56 »
To be blunt, I do not trust your benchmark results.   You get athlon results two to four times faster than the equivalent Intel chips.  You then say "This shows one thing: Athlon CPUs pwn and Intel CPUs are pieces of shit, My 2.2GHz athlon did almost 6x the work of a 3.2GHz intel ffs!"

If you get discrepancies this wide, you really should be looking at your test.  Nobody survives in the semiconductor world by selling products that are two to four times slower than the competition  at the same prices.   Yet you claim they do, despite the fact that no benchmarking professionals have backed this up.  Is anyone supposed to take this seriously?

How am I supposed to take this seriously when I can get 13,553,853 fps with this  test  out of my 460 MHz Celeron with a wussy 128 kb cache With KDE and Mozilla running, XMMS loaded, and a bunch of other dinky stuff running in the background, and you  get only 15,108,371 with a modern 2.4 GHZ Intel Celeron?  Are you seriously going to tell me that my 460 MHz is almost as fast as that 2.4 GHZ box?  



You also publish NO details about the benchmarks.  What optimization levels did you use?  What compiler?   If you used GCC, did you optimize for cpu architecture with the -march= switch?  Did you run it on systems that had kernels optimized for their chips?  Did you take the SAME binary and run it across platforms?   If not, did you use the same compiler and the same version and the same libraries?  And don't forget about cache!  For heavy FP calculations, a large cache is very important, but you left all that information out.  

Finally, Linux is not UNIX.  UNIX is a family of operating systems which conform to strict written specs created by the Open Group and then are submitted to the Open Group for a rigourous and expensive testing and certification.  Neither Linux nor FreeBSD do that.  They are "unix-like systems" or "*nix" systems, but NOT UNIX.  Those scumbags at SCO are continually trying to convince everyone that Linux is an illegal UNIX. Don't help them out.
In brightest day, in darkest night, no evil shall escape my sight....

solemnwarning

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 747
  • Kudos: 338
    • http://www.solemnwarning.net
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #11 on: 19 April 2006, 08:14 »
I also ran the benchmark with xchat, konqueror and xmms running, its compiled with gcc and no optimization flags, my kernel is compiled for K7, but everything else on my machine is for i386
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
 Version: 3.1
 GCS/CM d- s+:+ a--- C++ UL++++>$ P+ L+++ !E W++ !N !o !K-- w !O !M !V PS+ PE- !Y !PGP !t !5 !X !R tv b+ DI+ !D G e- h !r y-
 ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Refalm

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,183
  • Kudos: 704
  • Sjembek!
    • RADIOKNOP
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #12 on: 19 April 2006, 09:29 »
Quote from: solemnwarning
Can admin enable .c, .h, .cpp and .hpp file extentions for upload?

Done. The MIME types are set too.

mobrien_12

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,138
  • Kudos: 711
    • http://www.geocities.com/mobrien_12
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #13 on: 20 April 2006, 04:41 »
If you want to do a "benchmark," give the computer a real-world floating point problem, with real code.  Then see how long it takes to solve it.  For example, invert a 2500x2500 floating point matrix filled with random numbers.  Do a numerical solution of a differential equation.  Do a Fourier transform of an enormously long float array (just make sure that your array dimensions are powers of two, if you want to use the traditional Fast Fourier Algorithm, in case you didn't know that).  

Don't have the skill or time to code that?  Just install or compile GNU Octave.  Optimize it for your architecture if you want, just make sure you optimize it for all of the test archtectures then.  

Here's a one line octave command that will invert a 2500x2500 random matrix using code that's fairly serious and built by pros.  

 
Code: [Select]

octave:1> x=rand(2500);st=cputime();inv(x);et=cputime();et-st
ans = 167.15


On my old celeron 460 with 128 kb of Cache, running Fedora Core 4, stock kernel, stock FC4  RPM of Octave, it took 167 CPU seconds to run.

A big benchmark script for Octave can be found at http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gnu.octave.sources/56
which lets you see what architecture works best for what kind of calculation.

Demonstrate that an architecture can solve a real world problem significantly faster and then you actually have something to talk about.
In brightest day, in darkest night, no evil shall escape my sight....

toadlife

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 730
  • Kudos: 376
    • http://toadlife.net
Re: CPU wars
« Reply #14 on: 24 April 2006, 04:20 »
Athlon 64 X2 4400+

Quote
%./a.out
In 10 seconds this system has done 48620731 floating-point calculations
%./a.out
In 10 seconds this system has done 50146885 floating-point calculations
%./a.out
In 10 seconds this system has done 77663578 floating-point calculations
%./a.out
In 10 seconds this system has done 56487406 floating-point calculations
%./a.out
In 10 seconds this system has done 75651591 floating-point calculations
%                    


This was while compiling in the background. WTF is up with the hugely varied results?

I finished up my compiling and ran it again, and got the exact same scores! I also noticed that only one of my cores was bieng used, so I ran it twice at the same time....

Quote
%./a.out & && ./a.out &
[1] 41530
[2] 41531
%In 10 seconds this system has done 78938919 floating-point calculations
In 10 seconds this system has done 74342611 floating-point calculations

[2]    Done                          ./a.out
[1]  + Done                          ./a.out
%./a.out & && ./a.out &
[1] 41532
[2] 41533
%In 10 seconds this system has done 54624201 floating-point calculations
In 10 seconds this system has done 51831769 floating-point calculations

[2]    Done                          ./a.out
[1]  + Done                          ./a.out
%


Again, the scored varied wildly, but at least this time I was able to get both cores working. If you add up the scores from the first one I got 153,281,530

Woohoo!

PS: It's a worthless benchmark
:)