Miscellaneous > Programming & Networking
Javascript to help IE users browsing your site.
piratePenguin:
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---So the majority of people won't be able view them, yes some standards, :rolleyes: in my book standard isn't a proper standard until it's adopted by that majority so until then they aren't standards.
--- End quote ---
Well, they are without doubt W3C recommendations. I have to write my pages against something, it would be alot of work to write them against all the different browsers. So I write them against the recommendations (and yes, I've often looked for certain features in the specs. When I didn't find them, I look for another way to do it according to the specs, or ask around (I be Declan Naughton there)).
--- Quote from: http://www.w3.org/TR/ ---A W3C Recommendation is a specification or set of guidelines that, after extensive consensus-building, has received the endorsement of W3C Members and the Director. W3C recommends the wide deployment of its Recommendations. Note: W3C Recommendations are similar to the standards published by other organizations.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---
Talking of standards, Firefox, isn't W3C standards compliant, well it doesn't pass the Acid2 test.
--- End quote ---
"Firefox, isn't W3C standards compliant" What a statement.
Acid doesn't test JS. Acid doesn't test XSLT. Everything I've writen and expected a browser to render, Firefox has done. Opera hasn't, not on only one occasion. I've also messed about with XSL transformations, Opera doesn't support them whatsoever. XSL transformations version 1.0 has been a W3C recommendation since 16 November 1999).
I could rewrite the Acid page in a still-standard way and it WILL be rendered by Firefox.
Aloone_Jonez:
So what's your point?
What's the point of the W3C recommending standards if no one follows them?
Not FireFox, Not Opera, and no way does IE.
Opera does far better than Firefox as far as the Acid2 test goes, but Opera dosen't (yet) support XSL or XSLT and it probably won't until (if ever) it becomes a proper standard which will depend on IE supporting it.
By the way JS support in Opera can be a problem in Linux, you have to install a package, fuck around a bit or something and I haven't got round to that yet.
It is a fact that most pages are designed with IE in mind and both Opera and Firefox suffer as a result, until this changes arguing about the differences between Firefox and Oper is pointless. I'd rather not waste my time and be more proactive in encouraging people to choose their browser wisely, I'd rather suggest as many browsers as possible rather than ramming Firefox down their throats.
piratePenguin:
I just lost a Fucking Huge reply to this thread because the electricity went off, with references and shtuff. Oh well.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez ---
What's the point of the W3C recommending standards if no one follows them?
Not FireFox, Not Opera, and no way does IE.
--- End quote ---
WTH, they all look at the W3C standards - well, at least Opera and Firefox, IE sometimes.
IE6 has pretty good XSLT support (I hear. I haven't used IE since learning what XSLT stands for) (bet you weren't expecting that :p). IE5 had incompatible XSLT support.
I'm not sure how long Firefox has it, but Opera ACTUALLY DOES support XSLT in 9.0 (horray!).
Opera also, I've noticed, kicks the shit outta everyone else when it comes to parts of DOM level 3. When I looked at save support for that 'draw' thing, DOM level 3's load and save support was a saviour. Opera is the only browser I know of that supports it. But Opera won't run the fucking thing properly anyhow so...
But Jesus, the shitty Javascript support is a killer for Opera users looking at my web-apps.
--- Quote ---
By the way JS support in Opera can be a problem in Linux, you have to install a package, fuck around a bit or something and I haven't got round to that yet.
--- End quote ---
Huh, what package? I wouldn't be surprised if JS was DISABLED on the Opera I'm using, except I would be because it passed a few tests I gave it.
But JESUS. WTF is the problem with my pages I'd like to know?
--- Quote ---
It is a fact that most pages are designed with IE in mind and both Opera and Firefox suffer as a result, until this changes arguing about the differences between Firefox and Oper is pointless. I'd rather not waste my time and be more proactive in encouraging people to choose their browser wisely, I'd rather suggest as many browsers as possible rather than ramming Firefox down their throats.
--- End quote ---
If someone prefers Firefox over Opera what's wrong with recommending it to an IE-friend? It's not like anyone's recommending it to an Opera-friend.
And noone's ramming anything down anyone's throats.
Aloone_Jonez:
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---I just lost a Fucking Huge reply to this thread because the electricity went off, with references and shtuff. Oh well.
--- End quote ---
I hate it when that happens, I often do long posts in OOo first then save them so I don't loose the whole post if something bad happens. Sorry I'm not meaning to take the piss though imagine you were downloading a huge file an this happened, if you used Opera then you wouldn't loose your download, I think it might also have the ability to save the contents of webforms when you session save, I can't remember and I'm posting this from IE at work so I can't check at the moment, are they planning to implement these features in Firefox any time soon?
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---WTH, they all look at the W3C standards - well, at least Opera and Firefox, IE sometimes.
--- End quote ---
The problem is they aren't standard, I know you, me and everyone else confuses this point but they're just guidlines. Just wondering it must be pretty difficult to implement them as no browser fully supports them, that could be the problem.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---IE6 has pretty good XSLT support (I hear. I haven't used IE since learning what XSLT stands for) (bet you weren't expecting that :p). IE5 had incompatible XSLT support.
I'm not sure how long Firefox has it, but Opera ACTUALLY DOES support XSLT in 9.0 (horray!).
Opera also, I've noticed, kicks the shit outta everyone else when it comes to parts of DOM level 3. When I looked at save support for that 'draw' thing, DOM level 3's load and save support was a saviour. Opera is the only browser I know of that supports it. But Opera won't run the fucking thing properly anyhow so...
But Jesus, the shitty Javascript support is a killer for Opera users looking at my web-apps.
--- End quote ---
I see your point, each browser has its strengths and weaknesses when it comes to standards support.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---Huh, what package? I wouldn't be surprised if JS was DISABLED on the Opera I'm using, except I would be because it passed a few tests I gave it.
But JESUS. WTF is the problem with my pages I'd like to know?
--- End quote ---
I'll take your word for it, I don't view many Java scripted pages, I do use Firefox and even IE when I have problems viewing something in Opera, which isn't often.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---If someone prefers Firefox over Opera what's wrong with recommending it to an IE-friend? It's not like anyone's recommending it to an Opera-friend.
--- End quote ---
Nothing at all, I always fact recommend them both.
--- Quote from: piratePenguin ---And noone's ramming anything down anyone's throats.
--- End quote ---
I wan't accusing you, but some people are like people who put annoying popup boxes spamming visitors with anti-IE and pro-Firefox propaganda.
piratePenguin:
By fluke, I got the 'draw' thing to work in opera. And now the launcher thing, it was basically the same problem. (btw performance is noticably worse in opera 9.0b, and sometimes the events get, confused... the onmouseup event doesn't seem to fire all the time. (try dragging some lines))
Constants. (the last thing I looked at)
--- Quote from: http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Core_JavaScript_1.5_Reference:Statements:const ---const is a Mozilla-specific extension, it is not supported by IE or Opera.
--- End quote ---
That I fucking hate about "Javascript" - the fucking grey. Javascript was actually a Netscape thing, and is now a Mozilla thing. JScript is a Microsoft thing. ECMAScript, a SUBSET of both Javascript and JScript is the only thing standard, and Opera and everyone conforms to it. And extend it brutally (because it's quite useless on it's own) - it would be nice if the extensions were standardized (but it would probably be too much work - the implementations are about 95% similar already, but the 5% is fucking annoying).
Opera, I'm guessing, do little of the original extending, I think they just pick stuff from the Javascript and JScript stuff to implement - and they didn't take const...
So, class, what have we learned? Javascript isn't a webstandard. (It's Mozilla's)
So meh, Opera, yer not too bad afterfuckingall.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version