Windows users with problems

[iancom]

In response to several recent threads in this section, and without wishing to cause any offence to regulars...

What's wrong with giving Windows users help with using their systems (other than "use Linux," obviously)?

Someone using Windows has a problem, they find this site by typing their current sentiments "fuckmicrosoft" into their browser.

If we immediately alienate them by saying "fsck off you sad MS loser," "get a real OS," "what part of Microsoft Eradication don't you understand?" etc. etc., then they go away and continue to struggle with their MS system. They're no better off, and worse still they're probably *less* likely to want to try another OS if they think that the only people they would be able to turn to for help when they did are people like us - who will just swear at them for being stupid.

Most of us will have a better knowledge of Windows than most of the Windows-only users here. In fact that's probably one of the reasons we've moved on from it.

So why not help these Microsoft victims with their current OS whilst gently planting the seed of using a different OS. If a MS victim has come here for help and received useful advice, they'll probably come back when they inevitably have another problem. Each time, we mention (along with helping their Windows problem) how that wouldn't be a problem with $ALTERNATIVE_OS or how much easier it would be to deal with etc.

Sooner or later they're going to ask how they go about getting/trying $ALTERNATIVE_OS. That's where we really start to help.

If we exclude all those who only use Windows, or just haven't even thought of using another OS, how is this site going to help our cause? It just leaves us talking amongst ourselves - preaching to the converted.

Of course I agree with flaming trolls/MS evangelists. It's fun if nothing else, but flaming users who haven't really even thought about Microsoft and their appalling OS's/business practices is just more likely to turn them into MS supporters.

So, to the flames...  

[Ctrl Alt Del 123]

5 stars.

[psyjax]

I agree IanC.

I tried to help out a new user Speed-Roc and he never let me know if he solved his problem.

I suspect that it is because of the liberal flameing he recived elsewere.

People coming with legitimate problems should be helped. Like Socrates, does not a sick man need a doctor? Should we turn away the needy? We heal their problem and then offer a greater solution. Another OS.

Howver, folks comming and posting:

d00d waREz ar c000LLLL!!! come to this SITE:

www.freeshat.com

www.sucknutz.org

etc...

flame them till they die!

[Calum]

i have nothing against windows users per se, i am one after all, against my wishes, but on the other hand, a higher percentage of the dumbasses and wankers who come here are windows users to the core and morons of the highest order to boot. they can fuck off.
Since i joined here last year, i have spoken my mind. i will continue to do so. if that is not what the majority here wants, i will state my opinion elsewhere. i do not think that that is necessary though, since i reckon most would agree with me that assholes deserve flames.
We are not here to nursemaid them into a new OS, they can be civil or fuck off. Sorry, i don't give a shit. that's it.

[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]

[hoojchoons]

Ian, you've got a strong point here! Eventhough, I'm annoyed when I see Windows related problems in these forums, I also realise that there are people out there who, for one reason or another, have to keep on using Windows and apparently need some help! What I can't put up with though are people who lose their patience, like Whiteboy for instance! What I also don't like in these forums are posts like "type format c:" or "use Linux" etc from people who lose their patience with Windows users. That's all...

[psyjax]

Don't go Calum!!!!  

No one want's you to leve. Your the life of the forum at times, and your flames are fantastic! Best around.

[Calum]

if they're cleverly phrased, then those responses (format c: et cetera) are totally valid. I have helped people find software and patches for their so called "OS" but only if they are civil, and so has voidmain too. Also there's only so much help you can give, zombie5324875462378 posted an in depth fix for something recently, but i guarantee you that if i tried to make all those modifications on my system, i'd be reinstalling within a week. Useless.

If they're cunts (and a lot of thenm are) then they deserve all they get. That said, there's nothing to stop you offering help, IanC, i can tell you have a lot of knowledge to impart. myself, i am sorry to say i do have a big mouth and more opinion than fact. If i see somebody being a cunt i willnot hesitate to try and piss them off though. they deserve it, and in the case of "whiteboy" i think it was a long time coming.

[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]

[hoojchoons]

We're saying the same thing Calum. I agree with you completely. As a matter of fact I also used to visit the forums, eventhough not registered as a member just to look at the posts, since November last year. To my great surprise, the quality of people registering is getting worse and worse. You get people like Goosenbury, Whiteboy, fuckin' cunts that copy other members names (I can still remember you and VoidMain getting pissed off about that, threatening to leave the forums)! (I'm trying to be as clear as possible when expressing my thoughts, since English is not my native language, although I have studied in the U.K for two years. So, please excuse my English if I ever make a slip-up    )

[iancom]

Sorry Calum, in particular I didn't want to offend you with that post.

It is very true (noteably in Whiteboy's case) that people have genuinely tried to help and that assistance has been met with a tirade of abuse from the original requestant. I don't mean to suggest that we should put up with that at all.

However, there has been a tendency recently toward the view that Windows users don't belong in this forum, and it's that which I object to. The more Windows users the better - how else will they learn that there is something better out there?

[voidmain]

I believe we should help non-Windows users only. If Windows users need help, Microsoft has a phone number they can call. All they need is a credit card $$$.  I help Windows users day in and day out, then when I get home, friends and relatives call every night with their Windows problems. Every person I help I usually give them a dose of Microsoft sucks and that there is a better way. They look at me cross-eyed like I'm speaking in tongues. Most are all take and no give. Never fails, I sit down to eat dinner and the phone rings. I usually have to enjoy my meal while talking Joe Shmoe through cleaning the latest Klez.Win32.Sucks virus off their machine. Or "I installed this cool program, now my computer won't boot". Worse than telemarketers! At least I can hang up on the telemarketers. I'm to the point where I tell people I'm no longer in the computer business and have gone back to mechanics. It's so unbelievably draining.

There are 10 million Windows forums out there. Sure most of us know the precise answer to the M$ questions that are asked. You can answer them if you want but I personally like this site because it is an oasis in the toxic waste pool of an M$ world. I would certainly hate to see it turn into an M$ support line. It's people like us who are keeping M$ in business and I don't particularly want to do that anymore.

[ May 11, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]

[Calum]

i agree totally with voidmain. Every single word of his last post is right on the money. if i feel like helping some windows user (eg i might actually know the answer) i will. if not i won't. There are plenty places for them to go to get "help" anyway, other than here. They bought into the proprietary software system, they can buy help from M$. Or they can go the cheap option and join the forums of people who spend their every waking moment trying to stave off the moment when they will need to reinstall everything just to keep their computer working.

I think the issue of insulting arseholes is totally separate. It's just that the arseholes in question tend to be windoids.

IanC nobody has insulted me, let alone you, and i am not going to leave, i'm not that highly strung, everybody is entitled to say what they like. I am not prohibitive of others' right to say what they think, and that's why i am so vocal about my own opinions. If i tell somebody to fuck off, they have a choice whether to listen to me or ignore me. some stay, some go. while i am often irritated for example by some posters who have stayed, i have slightly more respect for them than for the others who come here plying their warez and generally being dipshit moron windoids, then about their sixth or seventh post they start telling everybody how "lame" and "dumb" they are and we never hear from them again. Good riddance i say.

Sure, i am all for being reasonable, but i think we need to distinguish the wheat from the chaff, or this site will become a haven for idiots.

Anyway, enough from me, back to the flaming!

[ May 11, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]

[Doctor V]

I don't post much, but I read the forums every now and then.  I really think windoze users deserve help.  But, as they are looking for help with their short term problem, help should be given for the long term problem.  They should be told about alternative OSes, and how to do whatever isn't working for them on Linux.  And theres no reason to be a smartass to someone who has a legitimate problem.  They should get real help.  As for the true dumbasses who come here and gloat about how cool windoze is, they should be flamed to hell.  They ask for it.

Calum, lighten up.  In all honesty, I think it would be best if you were not so condescending to people.  To real windoze supporters maybe its ok, but not to the rest of us.  You lose credibility when you exaggerate.  There's no reason to exaggerate, the facts are on our side.  I can tell you're a smart guy, but tone it down a bit.

Voidmain, I think I like your posts best.  Clearly an intelligent person who knows what he's talking about.  I agree with what you said above, and pretty much all your posts.

[Calum]

quote:Originally posted by Doctor V:
I don't post much, but I read the forums every now and then.  I really think windoze users deserve help.

me too    

quote:But, as they are looking for help with their short term problem, help should be given for the long term problem.  They should be told about alternative OSes, and how to do whatever isn't working for them on Linux.

I agree.  

quote:And theres no reason to be a smartass to someone who has a legitimate problem.  They should get real help.

here's where you and i start to differ. If they have no intention of ditching their shoddy operating system and are just trying to scrape off some "windows secrets" without contributing anything then fuck 'em. If they come to this site it more or less goes without saying that they already know they can choose not to use windows.    

quote:As for the true dumbasses who come here and gloat about how cool windoze is, they should be flamed to hell.  They ask for it.

back on track, once more i agree completely.  

quote:
Calum, lighten up.

??? am i dark?    

quote:In all honesty, I think it would be best if you were not so condescending to people.

in that case, i would honestly like you to expand on what you just said. i am only condescending. in my opinion, when it is deserved. Surely you know that things can easily be taken out of context when in print form on a screen, as many of the social indicators that go with interpreting language are not present. Perhaps you are misconstruing me?    

quote:To real windoze supporters maybe its ok, but not to the rest of us.

i don't think i have condescended to you and i also think that if i was condescending to other people that i'd have heard about it by now, but i am honestly intrigued, so do elaborate on this please.  

quote:You lose credibility when you exaggerate.

again, what are you talking about? when did i exaggerate? are you saying i exaggerate about such things as linux being easy/stable/secure and so on? or do you mean I exaggerate about other things? if so what?

quote:There's no reason to exaggerate, the facts are on our side.

what facts do you mean?!?!?!?!? this is baffling!    

quote:I can tell you're a smart guy,

thanks, i bet you are too, and my saying that proves that i take evrybody on their own merits, rather than just flaming everybody who has not posted before.  

quote:but tone it down a bit.

as i said, tone what down? i really would appreciate a run down on those things that you do not like about my posts, since your comments seem to be original. The most criticism i have had so far on this site is from aforementioned dumbasses themselves, so please enlighten me.
 

quote:Voidmain, I think I like your posts best.  Clearly an intelligent person who knows what he's talking about.  I agree with what you said above, and pretty much all your posts.

Me too, VoidMain is the GodFather of these forums!  

[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]

[Calum]

so is anybody going to tell me what's wrong with my attitude, since i am genuinely intrigued?