Miscellaneous > Applications
Nero for Linux!!!!!!
piratePenguin:
Oh people.
https://addons.mozilla.org/
http://www.allpeers.com/
Jack2000:
Tl;dr
Orethrius:
--- Quote from: Jack2000 ---Tl;dr
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Congratulations, you won the Internet. :D
yahurd:
--- Quote ---That's because the hardware is mostly closed source therefore the drivers are too, but would you prefer proprietary drivers than no drivers or free drivers that contain bugs, lack functionality or are unstable because they are a product of reverse engineering?
The fact that some hardware companies support Linux is a good thing, it means more people will want to use the operating system.
I suppose, you've got me on that one, there again, I wasn't really talking about drivers. I was talking more about applications such as drawing and word-processors. Vendor lock-in with Linux software is highly unlikely even if some proprietary does become popular, for example because the OpenOffice.org.org dominates no one would consider using an office suit on Linux that isn't compatible with it, even if they prefer a proprietary alternative.
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the openness of 0penoffice makes it possible to make things compatible with it very easily, i use abiword for light things and koffice for memos and openoffice for heavy duty word processing, what if people use staroffice? thats proprietary and thats compatible
--- Quote ---[ i haven't tried any extensions yet] because with Opera I don't need any.
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fair enough i see why you prefer it but when does 10.0 come out?
--- Quote ---Opera does have a spellchecker but I don't bother using it, perhaps I should, anyway perhaps more software should include a grammar/punctuation checker, since you've missed out capital letters everywhere!
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i never knew that. and yeah i wish that more things corrected grammar i don't care about capitols.
--- Quote ---Looking at it another way, Firefox has limited functionality; the fact that many people have to rely on extensions demonstrates this.
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right, i agree, but the fact is that most people don't need a bittorrent client and those that do generally prefer a bittorrent client that isn't tied to something else, so why include one? i tried getting staroffice 8 with opera's built in client but i decided to go with ktorrent as opera wasn't doing anything
--- Quote ---Why should I bother wasting my time with buggy extensions that can possibly break Firefox and possibly introduce new security flaws when Opera does all I need without any, whilst being faster and uses less resources?
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fair enough it suits your needs better and there is no clear cut winner, at least not as much as there is comparing either to internet explorer
--- Quote ---Sorry if I've annoyed you, but it should've been obvious that I was expressing my opinion.
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once again fair enough, thats your opinion but you quote bigpimping, making an edit so as to "correct him" that it is his opinion not fact that windows gets less secure with each release, then you turn around and oh so blatantly state Firefox is inferior!
--- Quote ---There again it depends on what you mean by better, if you're talking about security for example then Opera is better in this regard, there are not unpatched Opera vulnerabilities whilst there is still one unpatched Firefox 2.x advisory.
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if you are talking about KNOWN vulnerabilities than sure it is less secure but altogether Firefox wins in that regard, anyone using Firefox that visits this link will be pleasantly surprised
--- Quote ---I can also see why you prefer Firefox, the extensions are an advantage but, as I've said previously I'd rather do without them because they pose an additional security risk.
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i see why you don't like extensions and you can see why i do, so fair enough lets forget about them
Why wouldn't they exist?
--- Quote ---Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're crap, I like both Gnome and OpenOffice.org but I don't think there's anything particularly novel about either of them.
They don't exist because they're innovative, they exist largely because they are, lower cost than their alternatives, they are good quality and they appeal to people like us who oppose the Microsoft and even Apple.
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openoffice is young, let it time, and gnome is not innovative but it isn't designed to be, just like Ubuntu isn't designed to be innovative, they are both good though
if you want innovation then go with Novell who pioneered xgl and mono and made macros from excel work in calc
and kde the most innovative thing ever! amarok, twin paneled file management and more!
--- Quote ---I've never even heard of that, I suppose it isn't something that I would use.
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you never heard of amaroK!?!?!?!?
--- Quote ---Hell, I wasn't even meaning to say that open source software can't be innovative, it was just my theory as to why some of it isn't very innovative and there is no proof that it is less innovative than proprietary software. I just feel that the ability for companies to keep trade secrets is often a motive for innovation.
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i think the ability to keep trade secrets detracts from innovation, Microsoft made no notable changes to .doc format sine 1995, if 0penoffice 2.0 was released in 98 then in order to make sure noone could read .docs they would have to add some feature or compress it a bit, or do SOMETHING big that would make it both preferable and incompatible to openoffice
--- Quote ---I often feel that innovators are mostly relatively small software companies who are trying to get more people using their software, take Opera for example, they are a lot smaller than Netscape or Microsoft but they've produced the one of the most innovative browsers, the lots of features that appear in Firefox have actually been borrowed from it.
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Netscape was more innovative, actually, at least until Microsoft killed them and AOL bought them up also apple is big and its name goes hand in hand with innovation
--- Quote ---I don't buy your argument, for one the companies you're talking about also produce proprietary software and I don't see the big delay in a competitor using code, not to mention that you can't actually make someone pay for free source software.
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if they wanted to xgl would belong to Novell and so would mono, but as Nat Friedman said "there are a couple of things we are not letting go of, freedom were not letting go of" so fedora Ubuntu and Mandriva can all have 3d but after Novell
--- Quote ---Being a bit hypocritical aren't we?
A Windows supporter might find that remark very obnoxious.
To answer your question, yes I do run Windows and search the forum if you don't know why.
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well then as you run windows that remark applies but i laugh at you're remark as orethrius and i don't use windows so you might as well say "all non Microsoft oses are Kubuntu"
--- Quote ---There is no proof to back up what you have said above, all that is, is an opinion maybe or even a theory, it has been proven no more than my theory that software developers releasing there products as free software might not have any motivation to innovative because they can't keep any trade secrets.
Take the Opera vs Firefox security debate, why is there still an unpatched Firefox advisory? Where are all the 1000,000s of people trying to fix it?
There is also the disadvantage that hackers can find exploits in the source there again most exploits aren't found in the manner.
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--- Quote ---That still doesn't detract from the fact that OpenOffice is playing catch up with Word on a couple of things, sure, you can create better 3D shapes but how many people actually use that feature? Isn't this something more useful in a drawing package? Even then it really belongs in a 3D CAD program and compared to that it's pretty poor.
I would say that OpenOffice.org isn't that far behind MS Office as far as features are concerned but it is enough to put some people off and not without valid reason.
My main criticism with OpenOffice.org is that despite being more compact than MS Office, it still uses more memory, it still takes longer to load than any MS Office program. This is because MS Office is made up of smaller binaries whilst OpenOffice has one big fuck-off soffice.bin, for example you load Word and word.exe loads, you load Writer and soffice.bin loads containing Impress, Calc, Draw etc. even though you don't need them. You might say, oh what about, swriter.exe, sdraw.exe etc? Well those little binaries just launchers, if you look at your task list, you'll find that soffice.bin loads regardless of which launcher you run.
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ok fine on a windows machine, word starts up faster but if you try it under wine or crossover compared to the windows version of 0penoffice you'll see it for the bloated pos it is, it is tied to the operating system is why its faster! i use it occasionally under crossover and i HATE its startup!
That's a non-issue for most companies because they just use one version of MS Office let's not even mention the nightmare of incompatibilities between MS Word and OpenOffice.org.[/quote]
no, lets DO talk about the compatibility issues! i have openoffice at work because a couple of people use older versions and i like to keep the peace with it and as you can save in all versions of .doc(flawlessly in 2.0) it has no "incompatibility issues" i HATE the interface and i HATE the features but it is SO compatible i need it
--- Quote ---Please also note that I'm looking at this from the user's perspective. I am fully aware that the vendor lock-in associated with MS Office is a bad thing and has noting to do with the quality of 0penOffice.org, however it does effect how useful it is. You can't just tell everyone who sends you a Word to resend it in ODF or PDF, it will put people off doing business with you.
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no you cant but you CAN open the .doc and save in .doc so it doesn't matter! from what you say it seems like you need to try 2.0 i don't think you have, you may have tried 1.x but 2.0 deals with all the issues
--- Quote ---Because Word has dominated the market for so long, this will be the case. Suppose a user tries OpenOffice.org only to realise that they can't do something they could in Word, they will drop it like a hot potato and come rushing back to MS Word. The only way a word processor can actually beat Word is by being able to do everything that Word can do and more while being cheaper and more stable.
A simple word processor with extensions might be a good idea but I don't always like extensions as the can often cause stability and security issues. Perhaps if they were to be implemented in such a way that they could fuck things up then I would support them.___
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no the issue isn't which one is more like word the issue is which one is more compatible with what we have now, which one is easier to use or learn to use and which one will give us more value in the total cost of ownership, word use to win but not anymore!
Aloone_Jonez:
--- Quote from: yahurd ---the openness of 0penoffice makes it possible to make things compatible with it very easily, i use abiword for light things and koffice for memos and openoffice for heavy duty word proccesing, what if people use staroffice? thats proprietary and thats compatible
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My point exactly, no one will ever consider releasing some proprietary software for Linux without making it compatible with the existing formats which are open therefore proprietary software on Linux is unlikely to create vendor lock-in.
--- Quote ---fair enough i see why you prefer it but when does 10.0 come out?
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The release date hasn't been finalised yet.
--- Quote ---once again fair enough, thats your opinion but you quote bigpimping, making an edit so as to "correct him" that it is his opinion not fact that windows gets less secure with each release, then you turn around and oh so blatantly state firefox is inferior!
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Where did I say that?
Would you please evidence to back up your claim, like a quote and a link to the post?
--- Quote ---if you are talking about KNOWN vulnerabilities than sure it is less secure but altogether firefox wins in that regard,
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How does Firefox win?
Perhaps it's because Opera has more known vulnerabilities than Firefox, but it doesn't matter since unlike Firefox they've all been patched.
I don't see how having more known unfixed vulnerabilities than Opera is good news for Firefox.
Obviously this only deals with known exploits because it's impossible to deal with the unknown exploits!
Sure, Opera might have more unfixed unknown vulnerabilities than Firefox, Firefox could have more unknown vulnerabilities than Opera.
You could argue that only the known vulnerabilities are more important since they can be used for an attack, there again so can the vulnerabilities that we don't know about but the attackers do either there's no point in arguing this because there is no way of proving which browser has the most unknown vulnerabilities we can only go on what we know.
--- Quote ---if you want innovation then go with novell who pioneered xgl and mono and made macros from excel work in calc
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XGL, well maybe I'll give you that but I wouldn't say that making macros from Excel work in Calc is innovative, besides correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the latter a proprietary extension?
--- Quote ---kde the most innovative thing ever!
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I don't know but tell that to a Mac OS fanboy and they'll probably list the features copied from Mac OS.
--- Quote ---netscape was more innovative, actually, at least until microsoft killed them and aol bought them up also apple is big and its name goes hand in hand with innovation
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Netscape more innovative than Opera?
That's debatable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Opera_Browser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape
Screenshot of MultiTorg Opera circa 1995, running on Windows 3.1, remember that?
Screenshot of Netscape Navigator 4.08 released in 1998.
Opera was released in 1996 just as Netscape was on the wein due to MS illegally bundling IE with Windows and lack of innovation on their part probably had a hand in it too. No doubt, Opera has borrowed from Netscape but it added new features, look at it another way Netscape has gone and Opera is still here which is mainly due to innovation.
--- Quote ---well then as you run windows that remark applies
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Running Windows doesn't mean anything. Actually, I agree with your remark regarding Windows being a pice of shit, all that fucking DRM!
I was making the point that a Windows fanboy might find that remark offensive.
Would you find it offensive if someone said "Linux is a fucking piece of shit!" or "Firefox is an inferior compared to Internet Explorer which is superior in every way"?
--- Quote --- but i laugh at youre remark as orethrius
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Was it that funny? Well thanks, could you please highlight what you found funny so I'll remember to tell the joke again. :D
--- Quote ---so you might as well say "all non microsoft oses are kubuntu"
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No, don't be silly. I wouldn't say that FreeDOS or even Mandriva are anything like Kubuntu!
--- Quote ---ok fine on a windows machine, word starts up faster but if you try it under wine or crossover compared to the windows version of 0penoffice youll see it for the bloated pos it is, it is tied to the operating system is why its faster! i use it occasionally under crossover and i HATE its startup!
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You will obviously find that the performance of programs will differ between Windows and Wine. I haven't tried MS Office in WINE so I can't possibly comment on this.
One thing I can comment on is memory usage, I've found that MS Office mostly uses less memory than OpenOffice. I don't believe that this can vary much between WINE and Windows. A program mallocs what it wants, there is no reason why a should suddenly decide to use more memory under WINE or Windows because it doesn't actually know what OS it's running under. I suppose there could be difference between how much memory a GUI object uses but it shouldn't be that great.
There again, I suppose we're talking about personal experience again, yours will differ from mine.
--- Quote ---no you cant but you CAN open the .doc and save in .doc so it doesnt matter! from what you say it seems like you need to try 2.0 i dont think you have, you may have tried 1.x but 2.0 deals with all the issues
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OpenOffice 2.0? That's so last year!
I'm using OpenOffice 2.1 and it's a myth that all of those issues have been resolved.
Here's an example, OpenOffice formula doesn't support more that one line but MS Equation does.
Open Word, go to insert object, MS Equation, enter a formula containing several lines, save the file.
Now try to open the file in OpenOffice and see what happens to your formula!
Just because you haven't had any compatibility problems, it doesn't mean that other people haven't.
I understand that people only have such compatibility problems with OpenOffice.org because MS has locked them into using their products. Regardless of the the cause these compatibility problems still exist and are a major reason for people choosing MS Office over OpenOffice.org.
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