Decisions

[Kupotek]

Today we look into non Microsoft environments, and consider the pros and cons of each.

We have OpenSource and Privately owned, unshsred source, and some of us might think, open source must be less secure.. since anyone can configure it to do what they want.. they couldn't be more wrong. In fact Operating Systems such as GNU/*nix/Mac are all known to be more secure then any OS Microsoft has ever devised. Now this isnt a anti microsoft site, as our main goal is to help with their products.

You can easily port thru  to a MAC from Linux and you can dual  boot  linux with windows, but which is more secure?

Why did Munich Germany  turn down a 90% discount rate from  Microsoft to go with Linux as the  backbone of their economy?

What does this say about the future of computer's software, platforms, and what does it say about Microsoft?

Perhaps Microsoft will  fall behind as a global business  competitor and  have to  deal soley with the  home user...

What do you think?  How do I make the leap from  MS  to OpenSource?

I cant afford a MAC, but I know I could  get Linux up and running..  

How about some feedback  to quell the  fear and uncertainty of "something different?"

[Stryker]

quote:Originally posted by Emiko:
Now this isnt a anti microsoft site, as our main goal is to help with their products.

What the fuck? sorry I don't understand most of your post. I advise you consider the difference between a MAC and a Mac(intosh) though. I was a bit confused about how you couldn't afford a MAC, when I got mine for $3 (cheap network card). I must either appologize for my stupidity, or ask you to clarify a little of what you said.

[oolooz]

quote:Originally posted by Emiko:
What do you think?  How do I make the leap from  MS  to OpenSource?

I cant afford a MAC, but I know I could  get Linux up and running..  

How about some feedback  to quell the  fear and uncertainty of "something different?"

Good news for you, you don't have to "leap". You can move over in stages that would certainly quell any fears and uncertainty.

Easiest is ditch Internet Explorer for a better browser - Mozilla is a good choice, Firebird is worth considering.  wwww.mozilla.org

Then get rid of MS Office.  You can stay on MS Windows for now and start preparing to switch to Linux by using OpenOffice.org - it's cross platform so all your files from now on will open on Linux and MS Windows, Mac is beta right now.  www.openoffice.org

OpenOffice.org is very good at opening your existing MS files so you should lose much, if any, of your old stuff.

This will get you ready to leap/step over to Linux with the minimum hassle.

Other than that... it's depends on what you do with your PC.  There are loads of OSS apps those that are not good enough to replace you closed source stuff will be!

That's one of the things that makes OSS the right choice - eventually all OSS will be the best option.

Hope this helps a bit.

oolooz

[ May 31, 2003: Message edited by: oolooz ]

[Doctor V]

If your not going to spend the money for a Mac, then your only choice is Linux.  And a very good choice it is.  The reason Linux is free is because it is open source, developed jointly by thousands if not millions, and certainly not because it is of inferior quality.  You could take oolooz's advice and change over an application at a time.  But Linux really is easy to use nowadays.  Easy enough to start using right out of the box, even if your a first time user (depending on the distribution of course).  As soon as you have install CD, which are free to download on the internet, you can set up a working Linux system with which you can do pretty much everything you could with windows, and a lot more, in only about 30 to 90 minutes (it varies depending on how many packages you install).  There are many different flavors, or distributions, of Linux, I suggest trying Mandrake Linux.  Its a very good distribution that is very easy on newcomers, and dosen't try to be *TOO* much like windows.  Post install configuration is minimum, and the instructions are very clearly written without alot of tech jargun.  No need to feel fear or uncertainty, instead look foreward to using faster, more stable, and more secure software, and you control, rather than software that is controled by a handful of executives in Redmond.

Good Luck

   V  

[Kupotek]

I had originally posted this on a more neutral site, which is why some of the  talk  doesnt' apply, those who  were confused *cough*Stryker*cough* Don't take offense to that, please..

I am merely  concerned with  some issues  concerning a  switch from  Windows which I have been using for about 10 years, to Linux.  

What I do and do not know:

1.  I  have pretty much a  airtight  routine for installing the programs I use on a regular basis, under Windows XP.  

a. Adobe Photoshop
b. Some games ( Anarchy Online, SWG perhaps )
c. Macromedia Dreamweaver for html/notepad )
d. Leap FTP for uploading edited webfiles

etc ... ad  nauseum

Also my internet connection under windows, as it applies to my Adsl.

My concerns are:

a. Will I beable to use these programs under Linux?
b. if not what is the  alternatives?
c. ( self explanatory fear of the unknowns )

Thanks again for all the input!

[ May 31, 2003: Message edited by: Emiko ]

[ May 31, 2003: Message edited by: Emiko ]

[oolooz]

quote:Originally posted by Emiko:


a. Adobe Photoshop
b. Some games ( Anarchy Online, SWG perhaps )
c. Macromedia Dreamweaver for html/notepad )
d. Leap FTP for uploading edited webfiles

Also my internet connection under windows, as it applies to my Adsl.

My concerns are:

a. Will I beable to use these programs under Linux?
b. if not what is the  alternatives?
c. ( self explanatory fear of the unknowns )

Photoshop... some say Gimp, I say depends what you use PS for.  www.gimp.org

It's free and worth a look at.

Games.  I haven't the remotest idea.

Dreamweaver... not really any replacement, again depends how much you delve into the program.

Notepad is horrible.  Try Programmer's Notepad  www.pnotepad.org .  This I suggest you just do now, the sooner you drop notepad the better you life will be.     And it's a good intro to OSS for you.

There is WINE that can (more cannot) run MS Windows programs - I don't know anymore than that.

Linux and ASDL, depends on your provider.  Ask them what they can offer you.  If they can't I'd shop around abit, you never know you may find a better one.

oolooz

PS. I mean it about notepad, ditch it asap -  www.pnotepad.org

[Kupotek]

looks alot like uedit32  

[lazygamer]

Ok, just keep in mind that this site is a very hardline fanatical anti-MS place. I used to think people should help those who come here with their Wind0ze problems, but now I've changed... I no longer care one way or the other! Help, MES is consuming me...  

About ADSL, do you use an external or internal ADSL modem? If you use internal, you will probably encounter problems unless your ISP is willing to help you out alot(and it's possible that no amount of help from an ISP can help, not sure on this), or perhaps your modem maker offers Linux drivers. If you use external ADSL, you should have a good chance with using Linux. My brother told me that Redhat 9 detected and configured his cable internet connection without any trouble. He shares a connection with two other people, I'm not really sure of all the details though.

[Faust]

quote:What the fuck? sorry I don't understand most of your post. I advise you consider the difference between a MAC and a Mac(intosh) though. I was a bit confused about how you couldn't afford a MAC, when I got mine for $3 (cheap network card). I must either appologize for my stupidity, or ask you to clarify a little of what you said.

I must agree.  Let's just flame anyone who spells that all important a and c in uppercase.  I mean it's just so damn important to make sure we know what we're all talking about here because It's just so hard to guess what she means right?  I mean it took me like *ages* to work out Emiko was talking about Apple Mac's.  :rolleyes:   :rolleyes:   :rolleyes:

 

quote:I must either appologize for my stupidity, or ask you to clarify a little of what you said.

There's no clarification necessary - do the first thing you said.  

[Faust]

quote:1. I have pretty much a airtight routine for installing the programs I use on a regular basis, under Windows XP.

Installing isn't too difficult under Red Hat / Mandrake.  For the "standard" aps (really anything other than games) all you have to do is pick em out of a menu, hit "install" and then the OS will ask for the relevant CD and do all the work itself.  For the more esoteric programs you should be able to find RPM's - installing these is really just a double click and the rest is easy questions.  

 

quote:a. Adobe Photoshop

The GIMP!  I'm not a high paid graphics dude so I can't comment on whether it's as commercialy useful but I've used both it and photoshop, and to an "end user" like me there is not much difference.  If you're paid to design graphics you might want to get a second opinion but I quite like the GIMP.

 

quote:b. Some games ( Anarchy Online, SWG perhaps )

NFI.  Star Wars Galaxies isn't even out yet is it?  The info for native support if it exists will be on their site.  Wine and WineX can run games, but can be hard to set up.

 

quote:c. Macromedia Dreamweaver for html/notepad )

I'm sitting at a Mac OSX PC now and I have access to both Mozillas web designer and Dreamweaver MX.  I like Mozilla better.    No "wizards" though if that's what you want but really I can't tell too much difference.  You can see for yourself what the Mozilla version is like by grabbing the windows version at mozilla.org

 

quote:d. Leap FTP for uploading edited webfiles

FTP apps we can also do quite well.  

[bossesjoe]

quote:Originally posted by Emiko:
1.  I  have pretty much a  airtight  routine for installing the programs I use on a regular basis, under Windows XP.  

a. Adobe Photoshop
b. Some games ( Anarchy Online, SWG perhaps )
c. Macromedia Dreamweaver for html/notepad )
d. Leap FTP for uploading edited webfiles

etc ... ad  nauseum

Also my internet connection under windows, as it applies to my Adsl.

Its too bad you can't afford a Macintosh because it seems perfect for you. Mac OSX has Photoshop    and Dreamweaver. OSX also has almost all major games ported to it and and lots of mac only games. I don't know about Leap but I am sure there is something like it out for OSX. Are you sure you can't afford a mac, maybe you should look  into the Apple Instant Loan program

[Pantso]

quote:Originally posted by Emiko:

What I do and do not know:

1.  I  have pretty much a  airtight  routine for installing the programs I use on a regular basis, under Windows XP.  

a. Adobe Photoshop
b. Some games ( Anarchy Online, SWG perhaps )
c. Macromedia Dreamweaver for html/notepad )
d. Leap FTP for uploading edited webfiles

etc ... ad  nauseum

Also my internet connection under windows, as it applies to my Adsl.

My concerns are:

a. Will I beable to use these programs under Linux?
b. if not what is the  alternatives?
c. ( self explanatory fear of the unknowns )

Thanks again for all the input!

[ May 31, 2003: Message edited by: Emiko ]

[ May 31, 2003: Message edited by: Emiko ]

Let's look at those Linux counterparts, shall we:

1) Adobe Photoshop. Now you have 2 options for this. Either use Crossover Office from Codeweavers, which is a commercial product with 30 day evaluation period and which can also run M$ Office natively in Linux, or use Gimp, which is a competely "free" image manipulation program, that comes with virtually any Linux distribution.

2) I don't know about games unfortunately, since I don't play games on my machines.

3) I believe that Dreamweaver can run under Crossoveroffice as well. HOWEVER, I would suggest that you take some time and learn how to work with REAL HTML code by using Quanta Plus, Bluefish, vim and a dozen other text editors that are freely available in Linux.

4) I always use gFTP for my FTP transactions, which also comes free with every modern Linux distro.

Furthermore, I've gotten sick of this argument that because Linux is "open", it's insecure as well. That my friend in three words IS NOT TRUE. It is because of Linux's "openness" that it is more secure as an OS, simply because an ever-growing and really HUGE worldwide community is working around the clock to discover any bugs or holes in the Linux kernel as well as the programs that accompany it. Linux is by far a more secure OS than Windows.  

[Kupotek]

So far the  feedback here has been  incredibly helpful! I would say  the biggest of my  iceberg-style fears have been totally  obliterated and the little fears  chipped into  little shards and dropped into a nice  tall glass of ginsent-peppermint iced tea!

Thankyou.

Decision time.. as I  continue to save money  

[dishawjp]

Hi Emiko,

For me the easy way to convert from M$ to Linux was to take an older computer and just put Linux on it and give it a try.  I'm a relative Linux newbie, but I got an old P 166 w/ 48 MB of RAM and a 2.5 GB hard drive and installed Red Hat 6.2 on it.  This was less than a year ago.  

The GUI was a bit crude by today's standards, but I found the underpinnings to be quite solid.  About 6 months ago I built my first real Linux computer; a P 4 with 256 MB of RAM and installed RH 8 on it.  I was seriously impressed with the OS, and now it's a dual boot computer.  Red Hat 8 amd Red Hat 9.  

You don't need Macromedia's Dreamweaver to make web pages... learn HTML and XML and if necessary a bit of java.  You can create your web pages using an ascii editor.  If you're serious about web design, this should not be a real hardship.  

As for notepad replacements, there must be at least a dozen Linux equivalents.  I use vi/vim, but there are also pico, joe, emacs, gedit and kedit just off the top of my head.  And any of them will beat notepad, DOS edit or <shudder> edlin </shudder>.

I can't comment too much on Photoshop.  I've never used it and don't need to.  But my daughters do a lot with gimp.  As a matter of fact, my background is a photograph my youngest daughter took with her digital camera, transferred to the computer with gtkam, and edited with gimp.  

Take the easy route.  Grab an older computer that has no data on it that you need; install Linux; play with it for a while and get to know it.  Then , when you're certain that Linux can meet all your needs, build a real Linux computer.  Keep your old Windows box to have something to fall back on, but when you know for sure that Linux will meet all your computing needs as well or better than Windows ever did. put Linux on that one too.


Good luck with Linux.  I doubt that you'll ever be sorry for leaving Windows behind.

Oh, forgot.. I don't know what leap FTP is, but FTP, the real one, is a part of all Linux distributions.  It's simple and straight forward.  You have to learn about 5 simple commands.  Use it to upload or download your files.

Jim

[ June 03, 2003: Message edited by: DOSman ]

[Darkheim]

I have learned to use linux by myself, but if you're a complete newbie it is better to have a friend to help you install and configure it...

 

quote: The GIMP! I'm not a high paid graphics dude so I can't comment on whether it's as commercialy useful but I've used both it and photoshop, and to an "end user" like me there is not much difference. If you're paid to design graphics you might want to get a second opinion but I quite like the GIMP.

I'm using Photoshop alot...in fact Photoshop is the only reason I keep a Win98 partition on my HDD..and the GIMP is pretty good for low-level graphic editing and design, but it can't be compared to Photoshop...yet