Why Doesn't Bill want us to uninstall his browser?

[Calum]

the reason you cannot uninstall IE is to keep you using microsoft products and to keep you seeing the word "microsoft" until you get it screen-burned into your retina.

the reason it is integrated into windows is to keep you using it because it came with the system and you can't get rid of it.

one of the many reasons windows is insecure is that IE is integrated with windows, this means a security bug in IE is also a complete security flaw in the windows OS itself, meaning someone can use a simple webpage to totally compromise your computer, and do anything they like (including completely trash it) to your filesystem.

the reason IE does not properly conform to w3c standars, and the reason it does conform to the shitty code output by the html filters in msword and msfrontpage is because microsoft wants its incomprehensible markup from those proprietary apps to become the "defacto" standard instead of the w3c's real human readable html.

Microsoft have published articles about how they believe obfuscation is a good tool for security (which is bollocks, good tight code is a good tool for security!) and bill gates has often said it is crucial for his company to establish the defacto standard as early as possible whether it is the best technology in its field or not (guess which they usually go for).

[Visentinel]

Ime Using MyIE2 and it gives me the add and popup blocking, Tabbed Browsing, Plugs to IE Plugins ( only using DLexpert ) .

And i already have Tried Switcing to Mozilla, and i just didnt like it.

for Java Support, i hate having to use that crap shit java Engine from Sun, the ms java support in IE loads like 20 times faster and uses heaps less ram.

[Pantso]

First of all, IE is not standards compliant, meaning that it does not comply fully with the Worl Wide Web Consortium Standards (W3C). Therefore, most of the sites you visit or have visited have not rendered properly so you were not getting the full picture.

Secondly, IE is notoriously bad when it comes to math. Yes, math. For example, you have to pass useless instructions to your CSS, just for IE to get it and render the page properly. It's also really crappy when it comes to rendering a site which depends heavily on level 2 CSS, especially IE 5.* plus it can't do the cool things Mozilla can do. Take a look at this page also to see what a Gecko-based browser can do.

Thirdly, IE is ridiculously insecure. Did you know that the CD-opening script is just a two lines VB script? Or that the page that crashes IE, depends on a simple line of HTML?

Code: [Select]

Check it out.      

Now, if you still want to stick with IE, I don't really know what else I can say.    :confused:

[ May 14, 2003: Message edited by: Panos ]

[Calum]

quote:Originally posted by Visentinel:
Ime Using MyIE2 and it gives me the add and popup blocking, Tabbed Browsing, Plugs to IE Plugins ( only using DLexpert ) .

And i already have Tried Switcing to Mozilla, and i just didnt like it.

for Java Support, i hate having to use that crap shit java Engine from Sun, the ms java support in IE loads like 20 times faster and uses heaps less ram.

you think you're going to get a rise out of me? think again.

open source software is all about choice, if you choose to keep using braindead software and that shitty shareware you windoids love so much then fine by me, and before we go any further the Sun java virtual machine is not open source, however Sun created the java technology which means that if microsoft's java machine is any different from Sun's (it is) then microsoft's is automatically less functional.

anyway, if somebody chooses to use this shitty microsoft crap, i don't give a fuck, but i do wish these "i just didn't like it" whiners would shut the fuck up. can't you come up with a better insult to throw mozilla's way? sorry, i am giving you the satisfaction of getting a rise, like you wanted.

well all i am saying is who cares if you use windows Vsentinel (does the V stand for Virus? - nope i just noticed it's "vi" sentinel, nice, do you realise "vi" is now available in several open source versions, one of which is used by microsoft's developers routinely?), just don't go spouting all that FUD about how microsoft software is any use. if you're going to use it then at least admit its limitations. you only need to convince yourself it's the best because you fucking paid for it.

[LordWiccara]

quote:Originally posted by ecsyle:

yep. nothing beats a browser that will delete your harddrive. hey, i have an idea......there is a link you should check out on this page

[ May 13, 2003: Message edited by: ecsyle ]

[ May 13, 2003: Message edited by: ecsyle ]

haha, i clicked on that link on a schools windows computer, and now its infected with a virus! yay me

[xyle_one]

oh. there was no virus there. it just open your cd drive(s) and then asks you to click the red hat link.

[jtpenrod]

quote:the reason you cannot uninstall IE is to keep you using microsoft products and to keep you seeing the word "microsoft" until you get it screen-burned into your retina.

I would like to add that there's one other reason. M$ soft also uses these files called *.dll. This is an extremely kludgy variation on the idea of "shared libraries". The idea is to place your commonly used subroutines into object files that are loaded into memory just once so that multiple apps can call these common functions and subroutines without having multiple copies of the same code residing in memory. However, with *NIX shared libs, you always know where they are: /usr/lib or /usr/local/lib. These *.dll's are spread all over Windows. You can find these goddamn things just about anywhere in the file system. This, in turn, makes it damn near impossible to uninstall simply because no one knows where they all are. To be sure, there are apps, such as Norton "Clean Sweep" that promises to rid your Winderz system of all stray *.dll's. And yet, not even that can get them all. When I still had Winderz, I was constantly finding stray *.dll's even after doing a "Clean Sweep".

Another big problem is that tool from the very devil himself in the blackest heart of Hell: the Winderz Registry. Just try to keep that mo-fo clean. It's just not possible       (Compare that to the human-readable /etc config files that *NIX systems use.) A "clean uninstall" is a figment of the imagination: it just doesn't happen.

It's a marvel of modern technology that Winderz works at all.      
______________________________________
Live Free or Die: Linux

"There: now you'll never have to look at those dirty Windows anymore"
      --Daffy Duck

[Faust]

Or alternatively a marvel of a huge processor, wasted hdd space and tonnes of ram.  Plus you forgot to mention that no one that Microsoft doesnt approve of can use "their" dlls.  

[Visentinel]

gosh Calum    :eek:  

I didnt want a rise, IE is free i didnt pay for it nor did i pay for windows and VI is a roman Numeral and i guess you know what a sentinel is.

I was merely Stating the truth, i didint like Mozilla, not coz its Open Source or its not MS, its simply how i felt, If you Support Open SOurce then u Support Free speech rite?

I actully dont like IE, Its Shit, the Browser itself is a POS.

Ile Be honest with you, if MyIE2 could be Ported to use Gecko ide Use it, and ide be happy that ime on a More Secure Engine.

But it Cant

The Standards thing, well i know what yous are saying is true, Its General Knowledge

[ May 15, 2003: Message edited by: Visentinel ]

[Calum]

maybe you could use some other browser then? others apart from IE and mozilla do exist you know, here are just a few of course many of those are not available for windows unless you port them yourself because many distributors of open source software rightly perceive that a) mswindows is difficult to support as it keeps changing its API, which it also fails to publish fully, b) mswindows is on its way out in coming years anyway so why bother, and c) users of mswindows will probably keep using IE no matter what you do for them, people willing to use alternatives will already be using a real operating system.

Anyway, sorry if i read you the wrong way visentinel, but your comments are too close to those of many blase windoids i have talked to who don't give a shit about anything but their own immediate self gratification, i tend to read that into people's words sometimes, sometimes inappropriately.
 

quote:A "clean uninstall" is a figment of the imagination: it just doesn't happen.

well, not entirely true. there are many open source programs, many from the GNU project, that do not use the windows registry when they are installed in windows. Mozilla firebird does not and neither does FileZilla (unless you tell it to), and many others don't also, they all use config files the same as they would in *ix.

Also programs like GAIM and GIMP use the GIMP ToolKit even when running in windows, so they don't (i think) use dlls, choosing instead to use the GTK libraries you installed (all in a sensible location so you know where they are).

of course it appears that people using windows prefer not to use open source programs for some reason...

[Visentinel]

is that True lol !?
Windows users dont like OpenSource haha.

Ime Not Suprised   :rolleyes:  But really, how did you come up with that Conclusion ??

hey By the Way Calum dont Apologise, its mostly my folt, i dont really knwo how to Start off in the Open Source Community FOrums, Its Hard been a Windows user and talking to Open SOurce/Nix Communitys  

I just get labaled a Winblows Zealot dont i    

Try to remember, not all us windows users are AOL Dumb Asses that cant setup a Linux Box if our Lives Depended on it    

Ile give Mozzy another Role sometime, when ime not Downloading so i can give it a spin arround my fav Sites

[Faust]

quote:But really, how did you come up with that Conclusion ??

1 It's better.
2 Windows users dont use it.

Thats the reason why he came to that conclusion.  

[Visentinel]

I wonder why :|

Theres nothing wrong with Open Source Software   :confused:

[Faust]

I think ppl associate it with "freeware" which is usually shite.

[Calum]

quote:Originally posted by Visentinel:
I wonder why :|

Theres nothing wrong with Open Source Software    :confused:  

i know that and you know that, but as mentioned before, most people think of nagware and shareware and they thing anything that is "free" must mean it's not properly written let alone properly supported.

how little they know.

I am no zealot myself though, i was just trying out filezilla (an open source alternative to ws_ftp and smartftp, two free of cost but closed source programs) and you know i don't like filezilla as much, and i think it has more bugs than ws_ftp. Of course ws_ftp has not changed in seven years and i fully expect the bugs in filezilla to be worked out in the foreseeable future, another reason i prefer open source overall.