Miscellaneous > The Lounge
HP face recognition doesn't do negroes
Lead Head:
The Dog thing wasn't so much in general intelligence, but they are very good at deducing expressions, and using logic and reasoning to figure out something. For example, a toy was placed under one of two buckets, and a person used a variety of ways of motioning towards it, ex pointing, nodding, hitting the bucket in question, or just looking at it. Dogs were better then Chimps and human infants (I believe also wolves/coyotes) at figuring out there was something significant under that specific bucket.
There is also some evidence suggesting that Dogs are also aware that people and other animals are a separate entity them from themselves and that a person / other animal may not have the same wants and desires of them.
I've seen stuff on squids/octopuses before, and they really are quite smart animals!
worker201:
Dogs can be smart - but they also chase their own tails. And they're such craven creatures - a dog who has overeaten of its own food will still gladly accept any scraps from your table, even if it leads to vomiting.
I personally think all creatures, even humans, become 100x more interesting after they learn to read.
Aloone_Jonez:
Lots of so-called intelligent animals do stupid things
My cats will play with string and will swallow it if I let them, fortunately I only allow them to swallow an inch or so before I stop them: I've heard stories about cats how have swallowed string and it getting tangled in their intestines.
Humans are the worst, they get intoxicated to the point of being ill and vomiting the morning after, then go and do it all again.
Believe it or not, I actually see this as a sign of intelligence. No doubt the dog knows it'll be sick if it eats to much but it enjoys eating so is willing to take the risk. My cats probably know that string has no nutritional value but they love playing and chewing it, although I doubt they know it can rip their insides to shreds.
It's often hard to compare animals which have seemingly comparable cognitive abilities: which is more intelligent dogs or cats?
I've only owned cats so I can't really say but people often have the debate. You can't teach a cat to do tricks like you can a dog but it isn't a pack animal so has no motive to please you. Cats will on the other hand get you to do the work for them, as in my experience with my cats and the sliding doors. I don't know myself and I will be biased towards cats but people probably can relate to dogs more because, being a pack animal, they have better social skills. Scientists have speculated in the past that intelligence evolved in social animals but this has been proven wrong time and time again form orangutans to octopuses which are bright but solitary.
The octopus is often said to have the same mental capacity as a cat but I don't see how they can draw such a comparison for the same reasons as above.
Then there's the mirror test: if an animal can recognise itself in a mirror it's said to have self awareness. I don't agree with that myself, an animal might be self aware, it just might not have the visual mental capacity to understand how mirrors work. If an animal can be proven to understand that what it sees in a mirror is a reflection but it can't recognise itself then it obviously doesn't have self awareness. I experiment with my cats but somehow, I don't think they're bright enough to understand mirrors.
worker201:
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez on 26 January 2010, 01:19 ---No doubt the dog knows it'll be sick if it eats to much but it enjoys eating so is willing to take the risk.
--- End quote ---
Actually, I think dogs are genetically programmed to eat as much as they can at every possible opportunity. For one, some of them are extremely active, and need energy. But also, dogs are scavengers by nature, and they don't know when the next meal is going to be.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez on 26 January 2010, 01:19 ---It's often hard to compare animals which have seemingly comparable cognitive abilities: which is more intelligent dogs or cats?
--- End quote ---
I think cats are more intelligent. For genetic reasons - they're stealth hunters. Whereas a dog who hunts will do so by brute force - chasing down its prey noisily. Also, cats can be trained, provided it is something they want to do. I had a cat with dewclaws on all 4 paws, and she learned how to open kitchen cabinets, just by viewing the procedure a couple times. That being said, I think the cat vs dog intelligence question says a lot about people. People who respond dog usually do so because dogs learn tricks. People who respond cat usually do so because cats have such independent personalities.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez on 26 January 2010, 01:19 ---Then there's the mirror test: if an animal can recognise itself in a mirror it's said to have self awareness. I don't agree with that myself, an animal might be self aware, it just might not have the visual mental capacity to understand how mirrors work. If an animal can be proven to understand that what it sees in a mirror is a reflection but it can't recognise itself then it obviously doesn't have self awareness. I experiment with my cats but somehow, I don't think they're bright enough to understand mirrors.
--- End quote ---
Mirror experiments with dolphins have astoundingly positive results. After just a couple minutes, dolphins start to make faces at themselves, and they seem to understand not only that they are viewing their own reflections, but that the reflections are flipped horizontally. Which may be genetic - after all, water is one of the most reflective substances on earth.
Aloone_Jonez:
--- Quote from: worker201 on 26 January 2010, 05:32 ---I think cats are more intelligent. For genetic reasons - they're stealth hunters. Whereas a dog who hunts will do so by brute force - chasing down its prey noisily. Also, cats can be trained, provided it is something they want to do. I had a cat with dewclaws on all 4 paws, and she learned how to open kitchen cabinets, just by viewing the procedure a couple times. That being said, I think the cat vs dog intelligence question says a lot about people. People who respond dog usually do so because dogs learn tricks. People who respond cat usually do so because cats have such independent personalities.
--- End quote ---
Could you be biased? Have you owned both cats and dogs?
I don't know whether my cats learned how to open the sliding doors by observational learning or whether they figured it out from themselves. My guess it's it was a mixture of both: they observed that it's possible to open the doors but they figured out how to do it themselves.
Then there's the problem with comparing the intelligence of two very different animals.
There's a debate about whether the octopus can learn from observation which has never been proved beyond reasonable doubt but I think it's more intelligent to figure things out for yourself. It's known that cats can from observation but a cat can't open a jar and an octopus can, there again a cat doesn't have eight separate arms covered in suckers, containing twice as many neurons as its brain.
--- Quote ---Mirror experiments with dolphins have astoundingly positive results. After just a couple minutes, dolphins start to make faces at themselves, and they seem to understand not only that they are viewing their own reflections, but that the reflections are flipped horizontally. Which may be genetic - after all, water is one of the most reflective substances on earth.
--- End quote ---
Here's my favourite video of an animal seeing itself, the first minute isn't very interesting so skip it if you like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-DusaSVHmM#
Cuttlefish can see polarised light so I suppose it looks different in the LCD viewfinder. I like the way it reacts but it doesn't prove it recognises itself .
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