PS - 32 bit windows is an OS because it does do this, whether it's based on MS DOS or not, if you get a Windows 95/98/2000 CD and install the system from it, you get a windows operating system, with DOS integrated (or emulated in some cases?) as part of it. But with 16 bit windows, the installer is a program that you run in DOS, just like every other DOS program is.
simples.
Nope, you won't get Windows 9x to run either without DOS. This is because in the initial stages of its operation, just like Windows 3.xx, win.com uses DOS disk functions to open up vxds (in 9x) for things like the disk driver, display driver, etc. Then it switches into protected mode, and fires up the virtual machine (that 'emulator' you talk about). Also, with Windows 3.xx the extractor that puts the installer on the disk is written in DOS, the actual installer is a windows application. As a nostalgic, I've installed this recently enough under VMware to know.
Anyway, none of your points change the fact that Windows 3.11 puts the processor in protected mode and runs a virtual machine that emulates all of the features of DOS. When these are disk features, that magic in MSDOS.SYS does the real work. It doesn't really run on top of dos though, it runs an independent system that then provides an abstraction of some very small DOS features.
In any case this is getting a bit like debating that Linux isn't an operating system when it is running under VMware.
ok, first, GNU/Linux (for want of a better catch all term) is still an OS wherever it is, and second, you've missed what i said again, in this case, i didn't say Windows 9x would run without DOS, what i said was that if you install Windows 9x, you get DOS as part of the system, however with Windows 3.xx, you don't install a Windows operating system, you install DOS, and then install Windows as a program under DOS.
I mean there were thousands of other DOS programs that had to do OS duties themselves due to the slim responsibilities that DOS was prepared to take on. eg DOS didn't even do any networking (and neither did MS Windows, for the most part) which is a bit extreme by today's OS standards, but would you class all those other programs as OSs as well? Is this an OS? -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachne_%28web_browser%29Where's the line? Here's where i draw the line: If it makes your computer operate, it's an operating system. DOS does, Windows 9x does (whether it has a DOS chassis or not) however Windows 3.xx does not, and cannot without an actual OS powering it.
i think this dead horse has been flogged truly to pieces by now, by the way, but we can go round the circle another couple of times if you like.
One other thing, glancing over this thread is further confirmation that your accusations of my ignorance and stupidity are actually nothing more than your frustration that i don't have the same opinion as you.