Miscellaneous > The Lounge
Kintaro, you're a hypocrite!
Aloone_Jonez:
--- Quote from: TheQuirk on 30 July 2010, 05:34 ---I'm not picking sides, but why can't you believe in copyright and pirate at the same time?
--- End quote ---
Isn't that like believing it's wrong to kill animals and not being a vegetarian?
Maybe not.
I have a few possible explanations for why one might hold that view but I'll let Kintaro speak for himself, assuming he hasn't walked away from the discussion.
TheQuirk:
okay, but that doesn't change the fact that the person thinks it's wrong to eat animals. we're not robots, and we sometimes bend rules. sometimes vegetarians eat meat. similarly, most people think speed limits should exit, but sometimes break them.
in some ways, the examples you listed are good. I agree that some of them aren't really deserving examples. what about pirating photoshop? it's a great program, but it takes considerable resources to develop it. should it be okay for a design company to use 50 pirated copies of photoshop? on the other hand, what about a kid who pirates photoshop just so he can beef up his portfolio for an art school admission committee?
Kintaro, in a previous post, said:
--- Quote ---I have stated many times I think copyright should be enforced like any other social convention and not by Government force - but through sanctity of contract where YOU agree not to copy the work in the process of buying it - an agreement enforced by the civil court system.
--- End quote ---
I think that's a good system. copyright enforcers only have an incentive to go after unreasonable piracy, and leave the kid alone (though to be fair, companies like adobe give considerable student discounts, and he should not have pirated in the first place).
Aloone_Jonez:
You make some valid points and I suspect Kintaro has his reasons.
I would like him to consider what I said and answer the question. I suppose all I wanted to do was make him think twice before accusing people here of hypocrisy.
Kintaro:
--- Quote from: piratePenguin on 27 July 2010, 19:41 ---At least when calum said he was leaving, he left. Bitches who whine and cry "I'm leaving", should be permabanned, can we make this rule?
--- End quote ---
There is nothing else of value in my life but you.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez on 28 July 2010, 00:46 ---Well you clearly don't believe that at all, if you did, you wouldn't pirate so much software yourself!
You're a fucking hypocrite.
I'm not going to continue this discussion with you until you address this question, for the third and final time: if you believe in copyright, then why do you pirate so much software? Come on answer the question or can't you? If you can't then please SHUT THE FUCK UP or if you can, I'd be very interested to know.
--- End quote ---
It is my right as a free citizen to take risks. I believe in the free market but I've also shoplifted as a boy - and I don't regret it. My actions are not my words. You are a philosophically bankrupt fool.
--- Quote from: TheQuirk on 30 July 2010, 05:34 ---I'm not picking sides, but why can't you believe in copyright and pirate at the same time?
--- End quote ---
Because Alone Jones is alone because he doesn't take any personal risks, has no railway sleepers on his right arm, and is probably a 40 year old virgin.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez on 1 August 2010, 18:00 ---You make some valid points and I suspect Kintaro has his reasons.
I would like him to consider what I said and answer the question. I suppose all I wanted to do was make him think twice before accusing people here of hypocrisy.
--- End quote ---
I am using Windows 2008 legitimately to be qualified to use it. Microsoft offer me 280 days of free trial time, I am not pirating it yet. I solved my n00bish problems in my thread on the love board. I own all the games I play, I own Windows 7, I own Office as well. The only pirate software I think I am running at this point is Sim City 3000 and some really old games from when I was a lad.
Oh, VMware. I can't afford that though, and they really only care about corporate use of it. They can track it through the way it checks for updates. I might lose that one day because of some evil chip, but I'll just have to fork over some of my salary.
Yet, I accuse most of you of violating the law of non-contradiction which is an entirely different thing. Supporting voluntary contracts and the DMCA would be a violation of that. Saying that ordinary copyright contracts (old fashioned style ones) are invalid, invalidates the same legal architecture that protects the GPL. I love the GPL, I love the BSD licence, and most of all I love choice.
Just for the record.
* I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY LAW THAT DICTATES THE CONDITIONS OF THE CONTRACTS OF FREE CITIZENS. THIS INCLUDES THE DMCA.
* SOFTWARE PATENTS ARE STUPID. THE IDEA WAS INVENTED IN THE TIMES THAT MEN WORE STUPID TIGHTS AND RUFFS BY ONE OF YOUR KINGS.
* THEY WILL NEVER GET THE TPM CHIP IN EVERY COMPUTER. SHOP AROUND MORE.
Stop trying to strawman me, or I'll bloody go to England and beat you up. I can see why my great grandparents come here on a boat. You are a nation of perfectly literate dyslexics.
I AM A BIGGER HYPOCRITE FOR WANTING TO SOLVE ALL AND ANY OF YOUR LINUX PROBLEMS, HOPEFULLY TO BRING THIS FORUM BACK TO LIFE. I RATHER AM THE CLOSET THING TO VOIDMAIN YOU HAVE. I LIVE TO SERVE.
Aloone_Jonez:
--- Quote from: Kintaro on 2 August 2010, 20:06 ---It is my right as a free citizen to take risks. I believe in the free market but I've also shoplifted as a boy - and I don't regret it.
--- End quote ---
But you surely know it was wrong?
Did you get caught?
I've shoplifted in the past and was lucky enough not to have got caught but I wouldn't do it again and I'm not proud of it.
--- Quote --- My actions are not my words.
--- End quote ---
Actions speak louder than words, so if your actions contradict your words then your words are meaningless.
--- Quote ---I am using Windows 2008 legitimately to be qualified to use it. Microsoft offer me 280 days of free trial time, I am not pirating it yet.
--- End quote ---
But you soon will be pirating Windows, right?
--- Quote --- I solved my n00bish problems in my thread on the love board. I own all the games I play, I own Windows 7, I own Office as well. The only pirate software I think I am running at this point is Sim City 3000 and some really old games from when I was a lad.
Oh, VMware. I can't afford that though, and they really only care about corporate use of it. They can track it through the way it checks for updates. I might lose that one day because of some evil chip, but I'll just have to fork over some of my salary.
--- End quote ---
What about Photoshop, are are you a Gimp fanboy?
--- Quote ---Yet, I accuse most of you of violating the law of non-contradiction which is an entirely different thing.
--- End quote ---
What do you mean?
--- Quote --- Supporting voluntary contracts and the DMCA would be a violation of that. Saying that ordinary copyright contracts (old fashioned style ones) are invalid, invalidates the same legal architecture that protects the GPL. I love the GPL, I love the BSD licence, and most of all I love choice.
* I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY LAW THAT DICTATES THE CONDITIONS OF THE CONTRACTS OF FREE CITIZENS. THIS INCLUDES THE DMCA.
* SOFTWARE PATENTS ARE STUPID. THE IDEA WAS INVENTED IN THE TIMES THAT MEN WORE STUPID TIGHTS AND RUFFS BY ONE OF YOUR KINGS.
* THEY WILL NEVER GET THE TPM CHIP IN EVERY COMPUTER. SHOP AROUND MORE.
--- End quote ---
I agree.
Going back to the original topic about whether one can support copyright law and pirate software at the same time.
Yes, I believe one can, without being hypocritical. I support copyright, I just disagree with the current system. I have some pirate software on my computer. I downloaded a pirate copy of Windows XP because the disc shattered. I have lots of old software which is pirated. I cracked Cadsoft Eagle PCB software just to see what the pro version is like but reverted back to the legal version as I didn't want to risk problems with being able to access the files I created which others have warned me about.
Consumer protection laws and fair dealing/use should take precedence over copyright law.
I think that preventing piracy by single individuals is a battle that can't be won and trying to fight harder is only going to compromise privacy and civil liberties.
I think that software patents harm free software more than proprietary software simply because if it's closed source proving a program uses a patented algorithm without violating the EULA is impossible.
I also think it's possible to not like desktop Linux or Microsoft, use Windows and not be hypocritical. I dislike the oil companies but still purchase their products because I need to and the same is true with Windows which normally comes pre-installed anyway. I don't use any other Microsoft software, pirate or legitimate.
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