Kintaro, you're a hypocrite!

[Aloone_Jonez]

You go round  accusing many people here of hypocrisy when you're a fine one to talk. You go on about how important  how important intellectual property is yet you're a raging p1r8 - I bet none of your software is genuine!

So why not admit that you're really a FOSS fanboy who really believes that there should be no copyright and we should all be able to share software freely, shut the fuck up or stop using warez?

[Kintaro]

Suck my dick and learn the phrase "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me"

I am the only person on this forum apart from Lolkev (who does not use it) that can name a logical fallacy correctly or even cares about them. So I became an illogical hypocrite to try and fit in with you guys. This is the funny thing, if any of you were as crititcal of your own fucktarded ideas as you were of me you would probably all be objectivists or at least logical postivists by now. You'd realize this forum is fucking stupid and its entire premise is based around violently mugging a software producer you don't even need to deal with.

Also, if Linux wasn't completely crippled and worthless none of you would come here. You wouldn't care this much about Microsoft because there would be compeition. Superior competitor != a monopoly. Linux sucks and you all admit it by being here, if it didn't suck Microsoft wouldn't have the only good OS on the planet, the only one most people want to use.

You all just envy what is good for being good. You are all fucking scum, fuck off from places like this and I'd see you in a more positive light.

[Kintaro]

Short version: you people are a waste of brainpower. I reserve my logic for when I am not dealing with mindless thugs.

[Kintaro]

So why not admit that you're really a FOSS fanboy who really believes that there should be no copyright and we should all be able to share software freely, shut the fuck up or stop using warez?

I certainly like FOSS just not for entertainment. It's an OS that is supremely boring, being productive and that is: documents, programs, etc Linux is perfect - I can't even get distracted because that is how boring it is. It took me ten years of using Linux (this year is my tenth, fuckheads) to find it this user friendly. I hope nobody who just wants a home PC for a rest after works is conned into using Linux by the likes of you, cunt.

[Aloone_Jonez]

Lol, It looks like I've touched a raw nerve.

You haven't answered my question: basically your view is that copyright is necessary and FOSS advocates are communists who don't respect intellectual property, right?

If this is so then why do you not respect the intellectual property of others by stealing their copyrighted material?

I couldn't give a fuck about Linux for FOSS and I can sympathise with your view about people who use Windows but preach Linux being hypocritical but this isn't what I was asking so I'll continue that discussion in another thread.

[piratePenguin]

Also, if Linux wasn't completely crippled and worthless none of you would come here. You wouldn't care this much about Microsoft because there would be compeition. Superior competitor != a monopoly. Linux sucks and you all admit it by being here, if it didn't suck Microsoft wouldn't have the only good OS on the planet, the only one most people want to use.

No wonder you're coming across as so retarded and fucked in the head - you don't even understand the purpose of our being here.

[Kintaro]

Also, if Linux wasn't completely crippled and worthless none of you would come here. You wouldn't care this much about Microsoft because there would be compeition. Superior competitor != a monopoly. Linux sucks and you all admit it by being here, if it didn't suck Microsoft wouldn't have the only good OS on the planet, the only one most people want to use.

No wonder you're coming across as so retarded and fucked in the head - you don't even understand the purpose of our being here.

Hhahahahaha cry more faggot

Lol, It looks like I've touched a raw nerve.

You haven't answered my question: basically your view is that copyright is necessary and FOSS advocates are communists who don't respect intellectual property, right?

If this is so then why do you not respect the intellectual property of others by stealing their copyrighted material?

I couldn't give a fuck about Linux for FOSS and I can sympathise with your view about people who use Windows but preach Linux being hypocritical but this isn't what I was asking so I'll continue that discussion in another thread.

Saying copyright is censorship is like saying my door lock is an obstruction of your personal liberties. Copyright should be enforced by technology, not the Government ultimately. I have stated many times I think copyright should be enforced like any other social convention and not by Government force - but through sanctity of contract where YOU agree not to copy the work in the process of buying it - an agreement enforced by the civil court system.

People against copyright whatsoever are inadvertently also against the soverignty of individuals, the right to make contracts, and the ability of a court system to uphold them. It sets a bad prcedent in other areas of life ranging from marriage contracts to employment contracts where any agreement can be destroyed by the whims of the voters and the whims of representatives who wish to destroy individualism.

Political censorship is done directly by Governments. Copyright is done by individuals with a civil court that protects their rights. The same civil court that protects the GPL protects copyright - not the criminal court. Thus, it is not censorship in a political sense but more like Google or Facebook censorship which is really an issue of customer relations and not politics itself.

[piratePenguin]

Also, if Linux wasn't completely crippled and worthless none of you would come here. You wouldn't care this much about Microsoft because there would be compeition. Superior competitor != a monopoly. Linux sucks and you all admit it by being here, if it didn't suck Microsoft wouldn't have the only good OS on the planet, the only one most people want to use.

No wonder you're coming across as so retarded and fucked in the head - you don't even understand the purpose of our being here.

Hhahahahaha cry more faggot

The ironing, now does it not make sense to ban kintaro for being a bitch?

At least when calum said he was leaving, he left. Bitches who whine and cry "I'm leaving", should be permabanned, can we make this rule?

[Aloone_Jonez]

Saying copyright is censorship is like saying my door lock is an obstruction of your personal liberties.

The current copyright regime is censorship and does restrict civil liberties.

Copyright should be enforced by technology, not the Government ultimately.

How are they going to do that?Almost every form of DRM can ultimately be thwarted one way or another. Then there's the inconvenience factor to the user: you make the DRM too strong and it only pisses honest users off, the real 1337 p1r8s have probably already cracked it.

I have stated many times I think copyright should be enforced like any other social convention and not by Government force - but through sanctity of contract where YOU agree not to copy the work in the process of buying it - an agreement enforced by the civil court system.

Such contracts are only really any use for big cooperations, virtually no home users read big fuck-off EULAs and proving that such a licence has been violated,  without infringing the privacy of others, is virtually impossible.

Then there's the question of what is reasonable and what is not.

Is it reasonable to expect someone who downloaded a program for free, to read a three page document before using the software?

Is it reasonable for someone to buy some software without being given the option to read the licence beforehand?

Is it reasonable for a group of school children to pay £1000s in damages to idiot pop star's record company because they used song in their Nativity play?

Political censorship is done directly by Governments. Copyright is done by individuals with a civil court that protects their rights. The same civil court that protects the GPL protects copyright - not the criminal court. Thus, it is not censorship in a political sense but more like Google or Facebook censorship which is really an issue of customer relations and not politics itself.

So I when I write a book I must be careful that no part of the story is similar to one released in the last 100 years in case I get sued?

I can't take a sample from the baseline of some 60s RnB record which is no longer sold and didn't even make the top 40 in its day and RAP over it without having to pay $$.

When I do write a song, I have to be careful that it's not too similar to one already written or I could get sued.

Sounds like censorship and restriction of civil liberties to me.

Are there actually any limits to what they can put in ELUAs? Fuck perhaps Microsoft should write a clause into the Windows EULA saying that the user shall not use the software to do anything that would damage Microsoft's reputation which would make  those who use Windows to post anti-M$ material guilty of copyright violation, even if they paid for their copy of Windows.

People against copyright whatsoever are inadvertently also against the soverignty of individuals, the right to make contracts, and the ability of a court system to uphold them. It sets a bad prcedent in other areas of life ranging from marriage contracts to employment contracts where any agreement can be destroyed by the whims of the voters and the whims of representatives who wish to destroy individualism.

Well you clearly don't believe that at all, if you did, you wouldn't pirate so much software yourself!

You're a fucking hypocrite.

I'm not going to continue this discussion with you until you address this question, for the third and final time: if you believe in copyright, then why do you pirate so much software? Come on answer the question or can't you? If you can't then please SHUT THE FUCK UP or if you can, I'd be very interested to know.

[TheQuirk]

I'm not picking sides, but why can't you believe in copyright and pirate at the same time?

[Aloone_Jonez]

I'm not picking sides, but why can't you believe in copyright and pirate at the same time?

Isn't that like believing it's wrong to kill animals and not being a vegetarian?

Maybe not.

I have a few possible explanations for why one might hold that view but I'll let Kintaro speak for himself, assuming he hasn't walked away from the discussion.

[TheQuirk]

okay, but that doesn't change the fact that the person thinks it's wrong to eat animals. we're not robots, and we sometimes bend rules. sometimes vegetarians eat meat.  similarly, most people think speed limits should exit, but sometimes break them.

in some ways, the examples you listed are good. I agree that some of them aren't really deserving examples. what about pirating photoshop? it's a great program, but it takes considerable resources to develop it. should it be okay for a design company to use 50 pirated copies of photoshop? on the other hand, what about a kid who pirates photoshop just so he can beef up his portfolio for an art school admission committee?

Kintaro, in a previous post, said:

I have stated many times I think copyright should be enforced like any other social convention and not by Government force - but through sanctity of contract where YOU agree not to copy the work in the process of buying it - an agreement enforced by the civil court system.

I think that's a good system. copyright enforcers only have an incentive to go after unreasonable piracy, and leave the kid alone (though to be fair, companies like adobe give considerable student discounts, and he should not have pirated in the first place).

[Aloone_Jonez]

You make some valid points and I suspect Kintaro has his reasons.

I would like him to consider what I said and answer the question. I suppose all I wanted to do was make him think twice before accusing people here of hypocrisy.

[Kintaro]

At least when calum said he was leaving, he left. Bitches who whine and cry "I'm leaving", should be permabanned, can we make this rule?

There is nothing else of value in my life but you.

Well you clearly don't believe that at all, if you did, you wouldn't pirate so much software yourself!

You're a fucking hypocrite.

I'm not going to continue this discussion with you until you address this question, for the third and final time: if you believe in copyright, then why do you pirate so much software? Come on answer the question or can't you? If you can't then please SHUT THE FUCK UP or if you can, I'd be very interested to know.

It is my right as a free citizen to take risks. I believe in the free market but I've also shoplifted as a boy - and I don't regret it. My actions are not my words. You are a philosophically bankrupt fool.

I'm not picking sides, but why can't you believe in copyright and pirate at the same time?

Because Alone Jones is alone because he doesn't take any personal risks, has no railway sleepers on his right arm, and is probably a 40 year old virgin.

You make some valid points and I suspect Kintaro has his reasons.

I would like him to consider what I said and answer the question. I suppose all I wanted to do was make him think twice before accusing people here of hypocrisy.

I am using Windows 2008 legitimately to be qualified to use it. Microsoft offer me 280 days of free trial time, I am not pirating it yet. I solved my n00bish problems in my thread on the love board. I own all the games I play, I own Windows 7, I own Office as well. The only pirate software I think I am running at this point is Sim City 3000 and some really old games from when I was a lad.

Oh, VMware. I can't afford that though, and they really only care about corporate use of it. They can track it through the way it checks for updates. I might lose that one day because of some evil chip, but I'll just have to fork over some of my salary.

Yet, I accuse most of you of violating the law of non-contradiction which is an entirely different thing. Supporting voluntary contracts and the DMCA would be a violation of that. Saying that ordinary copyright contracts (old fashioned style ones) are invalid, invalidates the same legal architecture that protects the GPL. I love the GPL, I love the BSD licence, and most of all I love choice.

Just for the record.

* I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY LAW THAT DICTATES THE CONDITIONS OF THE CONTRACTS OF FREE CITIZENS. THIS INCLUDES THE DMCA.
* SOFTWARE PATENTS ARE STUPID. THE IDEA WAS INVENTED IN THE TIMES THAT MEN WORE STUPID TIGHTS AND RUFFS BY ONE OF YOUR KINGS.
* THEY WILL NEVER GET THE TPM CHIP IN EVERY COMPUTER. SHOP AROUND MORE.


Stop trying to strawman me, or I'll bloody go to England and beat you up. I can see why my great grandparents come here on a boat. You are a nation of perfectly literate dyslexics.


I AM A BIGGER HYPOCRITE FOR WANTING TO SOLVE ALL AND ANY OF YOUR LINUX PROBLEMS, HOPEFULLY TO BRING THIS FORUM BACK TO LIFE. I RATHER AM THE CLOSET THING TO VOIDMAIN YOU HAVE. I LIVE TO SERVE.

[Aloone_Jonez]

It is my right as a free citizen to take risks. I believe in the free market but I've also shoplifted as a boy - and I don't regret it.

But you surely know it was wrong?

Did you get caught?

I've shoplifted in the past and was lucky enough not to have got caught but I wouldn't do it again and I'm not proud of it.

My actions are not my words.

Actions speak louder than words, so if your actions contradict your words then your words are meaningless.

I am using Windows 2008 legitimately to be qualified to use it. Microsoft offer me 280 days of free trial time, I am not pirating it yet.

But you soon will be pirating Windows, right?

I solved my n00bish problems in my thread on the love board. I own all the games I play, I own Windows 7, I own Office as well. The only pirate software I think I am running at this point is Sim City 3000 and some really old games from when I was a lad.

Oh, VMware. I can't afford that though, and they really only care about corporate use of it. They can track it through the way it checks for updates. I might lose that one day because of some evil chip, but I'll just have to fork over some of my salary.

What about Photoshop, are are you a Gimp fanboy?

Yet, I accuse most of you of violating the law of non-contradiction which is an entirely different thing.

What do you mean?

Supporting voluntary contracts and the DMCA would be a violation of that. Saying that ordinary copyright contracts (old fashioned style ones) are invalid, invalidates the same legal architecture that protects the GPL. I love the GPL, I love the BSD licence, and most of all I love choice.

* I DO NOT SUPPORT ANY LAW THAT DICTATES THE CONDITIONS OF THE CONTRACTS OF FREE CITIZENS. THIS INCLUDES THE DMCA.
* SOFTWARE PATENTS ARE STUPID. THE IDEA WAS INVENTED IN THE TIMES THAT MEN WORE STUPID TIGHTS AND RUFFS BY ONE OF YOUR KINGS.
* THEY WILL NEVER GET THE TPM CHIP IN EVERY COMPUTER. SHOP AROUND MORE.

I agree.

Going back to the original topic about whether one can support copyright law and pirate software at the same time.

Yes, I believe one can, without being hypocritical. I support copyright, I just disagree with the current system. I have some pirate software on my computer. I downloaded a pirate copy of Windows XP because the disc shattered. I have lots of old software which is pirated. I cracked Cadsoft Eagle PCB software just to see what the pro version is like but reverted back to the legal version as I didn't want to risk problems with being able to access the files I created which others have warned me about.

Consumer protection laws and fair dealing/use should take precedence over copyright law.

I think that preventing piracy by single individuals is a battle that can't be won and trying to fight harder is only going to compromise privacy and civil liberties.

I think that software patents harm free software more than proprietary software simply because if it's closed source proving a program uses a patented algorithm without violating the EULA is impossible.

I also think it's possible to not like desktop Linux or Microsoft, use Windows and not be hypocritical. I dislike the oil companies but still purchase their products because I need to and the same is true with Windows which normally comes pre-installed anyway. I don't use any other Microsoft software, pirate or legitimate.