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piratePenguin:

--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez on 10 August 2010, 20:48 ---
--- Quote from: piratePenguin on 10 August 2010, 16:58 ---
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez on 10 August 2010, 14:49 ---
--- Quote from: piratePenguin on 10 August 2010, 12:27 ---The renaissance time saw some of the most impressive artwork that was ever seen - artists received money through patrons who liked their work - I am thinking about a much similar system, except the patron can be a collective.
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You can't compare then with now, back then you couldn't duplicate the artwork at no cost at all which you can do today.
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The point is that the artwork was done back then, and people were getting paid for it.


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Of course they were but you're still missing the point, you can't compare how things were before computers to now.
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But artists were getting by by using their skills to satisfy someone, or by simply impressing people with their work - no copies needed to be sold, that's the point I'm making. I wasn't suggesting what you think.

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--- Quote ---Also, by far, more and more media consumption is happening in one location - that is our computers (and mobiles, which will be our music players and storage devices in the near future). In the future, all of our favorite bands,
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But people still go to watch films at the cinema, buy CDs, DVDs and go to see live music. Many so-called industry experts have been predicting the end of cinemas for years but it's not happened, although lots of the smaller cinemas have closed.
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People can still look up the artists they like and contribute towards them. They will have the ability to come back from the cinema and look up the great film they saw, recommend them to friends, download the film, other things and optionally contribute back. (Also I trust they will not be paying ridiculous prices for the cinema anymore - but they should pay for the service they are offered)

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--- Quote ---films, etc will be on there, and I've talked about some simple system where people can send out money to artists they enjoy. We might get people who pay 3 euro to watch a film with their girlfriend who go home and send 25 euro to the creators online. Or they might add them to their favorites so that at the end of each month 40 euro will be shared between all favorites. We might have rich movie buffs who'd love to call themselves patrons and who share 10,000 euro a month between their favorite film creators. Maybe other people will become famous for their patronage - locally or globally.
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This is  becoming a circular argument, you're assuming people will give enough to fund multimillion dollar films produced in Hollywood which I think is very naive.
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I don't think you've read carefully enough - I am not making a statement - billions of dollars will be pumped into films, I am merely pointing out some pitfalls of simple thought about this topic.

--- Quote ---I do believe that people will donate money but I don't think it will be enough to fund the current business model for the current film and music industries.
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This may be true.

--- Quote ---For a start you should look at how many people donate money to a certain open source project vs the amount of revenue made by a proprietary software vendor selling exactly the same product with a similar market share. If indeed such a comparison can be done, I'm pretty sure that the amount received in donations would be a fraction of what the proprietary vendor makes; this is the sort of comparison you need to make. Then of course you can't compare software to film and music as it's a collaboration between 100s of people not at few.
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I'm sure that your conclusion is correct, but it doesn't help much. A big reason someone would make some software and release it free is because nobody would use it if they charged for it. They can add a donation page but they aren't doing it for the money - it's for the experience, for fun, or maybe they're like me and they're doing the most natural thing they can do? Most times they are not seeking money for any purpose - anybody who volunteers their time most likely has a job.

Additionally, if copyright is gone for everyone there will be a major change - fundamentally, nothing will be done if people copy whilst contributing nothing. People are not stupid and will understand this. I'm trying to say that average expenditure for films or music will not approach zero. If it approaches more than around 60-70% of the current average then artists (certainly for music) will be compensated by more than in the current day (record companies getting no cut).
Responsible people who can afford it will contribute, and that will keep the world spinning on it's axis*. Freeriders will exist, of course, and indeed if they become a social norm then we will have nothing to watch - but I think that's a naive assumption. It's a simple task to freeride currently - millions of people don't put their hand in their pocket unless they're back is against the wall and they gotta go to the fooking cinema. I couldn't tell you one person who I know spends 10 quid a month on music (of course I know people who do, but everyone I know well I know downloads everything or isn't interested in spending money on music - this is a prevalent attitude today).

http://www.kickstarter.com/

* this is almost the same case today.

This posts a bit messy, bedtime.

Aloone_Jonez:
Wow, since going on holiday, I had forgotten about this thread.

I think you forget that the arts are already highly dependant on donations as it is, what makes you think that people will donate even more money?

Regarding free-loading; what makes you think that the majority will pay for something when they're not obliged to?

I read the FAQ on the Kickstarter site you posts a link to and it says that the project creator keeps their rights to the material so I'm not convinced it's a good example of  your so-called free culture exists. Also just because free software and information do exist, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's something which can successfully be rolled out across all creative industries.

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