Miscellaneous > The Lounge
STOPPUM
hm_murdock:
Whatcha gonna do?
They improved the quality of their software greatly. They improved Windows by leaps and bounds in usability and security.
Windows Developers still approach UI design with the same disdain that *nix devs did until around 2005. That's why no two fucking disc burning apps operate even remotely the same way.
They now provide free - AND QUALITY - anti-malware software.
I mean... What the fuck. These can't be the same guys.
Whatcha gonna do to stop em?
Let's play Devil's Advocate here for a while. MS aren't the same dudes as when this place got put together. Now there's competition, so what the fux.
WHATCHA GONNA DO TO STOPPUM
Refalm:
It's the work of just one guy.
Here he talks about it all:
http://videos.visitmix.com/MIX09/C26F
Although the GUI is improved, it's part of the same trick.
The new Windows has a different way of application design. The old Windows gets updated Windows applications that have the new Windows design (Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, Office). By doing this, old Windows looks outdated.
It's been done since Windows 95, with that Internet Explorer 4 junk, then having a Windows ME designed Windows Media Player on Windows 98, up to the Teletubbie look of Windows XP (really made the new Windows Messenger look futuristic on a Windows 98 desktop), and of course the complete UX turnaround of Vista and 7, that made Internet Explorer 7 look like the cool kid that smoked cigarettes amongst the toddlers that were the other Windows XP applications.
Aloone_Jonez:
Do we really need to Stop Microsoft?
Surely competition provided by alternatives has helped drive improvements to their software.
For example, there are Internet Explorer 6 with its featureless UI, shit security, inferior standards compliance and sluggish speed. Then along came Firefox which offered users more speed, UI enhancements such as tabbed browsing, improved security and the IE user-base shrunk overnight. MS had to do something, so they came up with IE 7 which although was still behind Firefox in many areas (security, speed and stability), it was a vast improvement and was actually better in some respects: for example it had full page zooming (like Opera) which could only be implemented on Firefox with an extension. Soon came IE 8 which solved even more security issues and improved standards compliance by passing the Acid 2 test. Now MS are working in IE 9 which should be even better.
If Firefox had not existed then IE would probably be still on version 6 or perhaps 6.5 and it wouln't be any better: non Windows users would be complaining more about websites not working and rogue ActiveX controls would be still be hijacking people's computers.
In short, we might not be able to actually stop Microsoft but we can influence them enough to improve the quality of their software and kick them in the right direction.
Also let's not forget that by criticising their software we're actually helping them to improve it. I'm pretty sure they read ant-Windows blogs and take on board some of the harsh criticism.
piratePenguin:
Well fuck, is bad products the only reason any of us had for detesting Microsoft? (it isn't the main reason I used to detest them - I grew up on Windows and stumbled upon interesting free alternatives that it turned out suit me better - and it was in learning MS practices to stifle competition on desktop OS software, on the web, on office software (they should be punished for their attitude to OpenDocument and decade-old web standards))
Microsoft have indeed leap-frogged their products to compete, and they have a somewhat better attitude too, and all to be sure because millions of people were taking a look at MS software and jumping off. It was never so important to me that MS released shit software, but the audacity to re-release shit software and create a perpetual upgrading complex for hundreds of millions of people and businesses, that doesn't win my heart and mind. But they've "changed" - as doing so is now in their business interest, due to competitors that aren't just better quality but that are gaining momentum in hundreds of millions of users.
At the end of the day we will have to deal with the MS antics over the past few decades for as long as companies are motivated by profit. How can we really argue with them is the question?
Btw, IE9 is a pretty huge improvement, but as I've heard the big boys in the administration love to wreck things up, e.g. the team decides implement feature X is the way to go but are told not to, seemingly for the sake of not producing a top-quality browser (I'll look through my history for this). I guess IE10 will be part of another perpetual upgrading thing, but as I said, how can we argue?
reactosguy:
--- Quote from: hm_murdock on 12 September 2010, 08:55 ---WHATCHA GONNA DO TO STOPPUM
--- End quote ---
Not hard. If we pour hot water over their hairs for giving us low-quality (as in price and license) products, they're going to try to improve their products.
We can have them try to improve the code but not realize that price is a bad point about them, that proprietary licenses limit software potential and higher quality alternatives are available, with some able to be modified without permission.
WE can tell them that we have many complaints about Windows, code-wise. But we can't spill the beans (tell them that we hate the price, license etc.) or they'll try to improve their other stuff which will improve their monopolistic position.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez on 12 September 2010, 19:12 ---Do we really need to Stop Microsoft?
Surely competition provided by alternatives has helped drive improvements to their software.
--- End quote ---
Yes, apparently, Microsoft is a copycat and will do anything to switch FF users to bloat-loaded IE. They'll make up the Get The Facts pages to encourage switching. Unfortunately Microsoft has always been loading FUD onto such pages to make sure users' switches are ensured and average people who think viruses erase data think that Microsoft is telling the truth.
Also, no matter what features are brought onto Microsoft's products, they will usually be bloated, requiring the user to get more RAM and a better hard drive to waste money.
--- Quote from: Aloone_Jonez on 12 September 2010, 19:12 ---In short, we might not be able to actually stop Microsoft but we can influence them enough to improve the quality of their software and kick them in the right direction.
Also let's not forget that by criticising their software we're actually helping them to improve it. I'm pretty sure they read ant-Windows blogs and take on board some of the harsh criticism.
--- End quote ---
I wonder why we're all in a forum. I think that Microsoft ignores most minor sites opposing them, but this one has a link to Microsuck, the most popular anti-Microsoft ever created, so we need to watch out on that.
We could just ban their IP address and redirect them to their page so they think we are gone for good and so that the best anti-MS site on the 'Net has crucial information safe from our nemesis, preventing them from improving their products and keeping them in hot water. This doesn't stop some Microsoft employee or fan from logging on to this site at home masquerading as an anti-MS person and sending info to them. We can just delete their account anyway and block their access as well. Because Microsoft's email server deletes spam, such messages by fans will never reach MS. MS employees will try to present proof but because access to here from MS HQ is banned, it will be shrugged off.
The point is, if MS never existed, this site wouldn't have existed as well. Our continuity depends on an existing Microsoft Corporation boiling in hot water without them stealing our criticism and improving products.
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