Windows Never Changes!!!

[Aloone_Jonez]

I depends on what's wrong with the CD, if the foil side is damaged then your SOL.

You're an idiot, you should have backed the CD up when you first got it.

[ July 21, 2004: Message edited by: Aloone ]

[WMD]

quote:Originally posted by Aloone:
You're an idiot,

Shut up.  

[Shiver]

quote:Originally posted by xeen:
It's hopeless for Microsoft to ever get it right again unless they start from total scratch.

Um, what's that word doing there?  

[ July 23, 2004: Message edited by: Shiver ]

[linuxnfreedosman1986]

quote:Originally posted by Shiver:


Um, what's that word doing there?      

[ July 23, 2004: Message edited by: Shiver ]

I agree. Microsoft never got Windows right.

[Dr. Ephemeron]

Sure Windows changes, I used to be able to search text within an ASP file, now I have to use a 3rd party file search utility to do it because the so-called registry "fix" doesn't work.

So something that worked perfectly well in DOS does not work in XP... I call that a big change!  

[dishawjp]

Jeeze Guys,

I can understand Vertigo173 and his POV, he's new here and hates Windows and is looking for a way out.  But what about the rest of you?  I haven't used Windows at home since Win98.  I have never used WinXP or WinME and hope to never have to.  OK, I do have to use Win2k at work and that bites, but why do you folks know so damned much about WIndows??? Do you like putting up with Microsoft's BS and passing more money to the people bent on killing Free and OS software and any semblance of choice in computing?

I guess that it just amazes me to come back to this site, I don't hang around much any more, and see the same people bitch like crazy about Microsoft for years and then read that they're still using it.  And not only using it, but proficient in it.  

I just don't understand.....

Maybe Bill Gates and his cronies have won after all.....

[WMD]

quote:Originally posted by BASHman:
Jeeze Guys,

I can understand Vertigo173 and his POV, he's new here and hates Windows and is looking for a way out.  But what about the rest of you?  I haven't used Windows at home since Win98.  I have never used WinXP or WinME and hope to never have to.  OK, I do have to use Win2k at work and that bites, but why do you folks know so damned much about WIndows??? Do you like putting up with Microsoft's BS and passing more money to the people bent on killing Free and OS software and any semblance of choice in computing?

I guess that it just amazes me to come back to this site, I don't hang around much any more, and see the same people bitch like crazy about Microsoft for years and then read that they're still using it.  And not only using it, but proficient in it.  

I just don't understand.....

Maybe Bill Gates and his cronies have won after all.....

You're an idiot.

Look all over the site.  Hardly anyone here wants to stay with Windows.  But it takes time.  It's the conversion process.

So quit it.

[Aloone_Jonez]

quote:
passing more money to the people bent on killing Free and OS software

   Pay for Windows?

You must think we're retarded!

Who pays for Windows or MS software apart form OEM install, and large organisations?

Most of my friends pirate Windows!

If they pay, is only for one copy normally OEM install, and they install it on all of their other PCs. Most people I know haven't given MS a penny they run pirate copys of win2k, and if they bother with XP they just hack it.

[bedouin]

quote:Originally posted by Aloone:
[QBMost people I know haven't given MS a penny they run pirate copys of win2k, and if they bother with XP they just hack it.[/QB]

Well, whether you're paying for it or not MS is still benefiting.  Every machine running their software is reenforcing the monoculture, including its closed standards.  In the long run, that makes it harder for any other alternatives to become successful, even if they are technologically superior.  

Little changes start in small places.  Like when your friend comes over and sees you're running Linux, then proceeds to ask why.  There's a perfect opportunity for you to bring him to the other side.  Really, substitute Linux with OS X, or your system of choice.  When your friend asks for a copy of Office, ask him if he's ever checked out OpenOffice.  If he tries and it still doesn't like it no harm done.  I found a really great open source sound editor called Audacity the other day; now whenever someone asks me where to find a crack for Audition or Goldwave I can direct them there -- plus it's multi-platform (I'm now using it instead of Sound Studio on my Mac).

The first stage of resistance is disassociating yourself from that which oppresses you  

[dishawjp]

quote:
Well, whether you're paying for it or not MS is still benefiting. Every machine running their software is reenforcing the monoculture, including its closed standards. In the long run, that makes it harder for any other alternatives to become successful, even if they are technologically superior.

Bedouin,

You're exactly right.  And if you try to promote Linux software to potential converts and they see that you are still running Microsoft products, how impressed will they really be.  Work or school are exceptions.  We all need to earn money to live and to do that we need to graduate from school and if either of those two places require the use of Windows... well, in life we often have to do things we really don't like doing.

 

quote:
Most people I know haven't given MS a penny they run pirate copys of win2k, and if they bother with XP they just hack it.

Aloone,

I don't condone piracy (theft) for a lot of reasons.  What is it that Windows offers, other than possibly the ability to play a few games, that you can't do just as well with Linux, OSX, or one of the BSD's?  If it's so important to use Windows that you're willing to steal it, then maybe it is a better operating system.  

<picking self up off floor after fit of choking/laughing and total disbelief that I even wrote that...>

 

quote:
You're an idiot.

Look all over the site. Hardly anyone here wants to stay with Windows. But it takes time. It's the conversion process.

So quit it.

WMD,

Calling me an idiot won't change the fact that you've been on this site for almost a year, that you're a site moderator, and yet you still use Windows.  That's what I just don't understand.  I will admit that when I first started with Linux, I just installed it on an "extra" PC I had kicking around, and left my Windows computer intact.  Within a few months, I upgraded my Linux hardware and hardly ever used my Windows computer.  Now the only time I even consider using Windows is at work.  

This site used to provide me with a lot of help in converting from Windows to Linux. I still see some posts in the UNIX/GNU Linux forum helping people, with often excellent help and answers posted by you.  But even you admit to still using MSWindows.  

I just find it a bit sad that so many people here still use MSWindows and are evidently very proficient with the newer versions of it while writing all the time about how terrible it is.  

That's all I wanted to say.

Maybe that makes me an idiot, but at least I don't use MSWindows.

[hm_murdock]

Sorry,
Did you say something?

[Orethrius]

I'm going to step out of line here and apologize for WMD calling you an idiot, that was not called for.  Unfortunately, most of the rest of what he posted was accurate.  You're not winning ANYBODY over by implying that rebels that happen to dual-boot or not want to lose all their precious downloaded files are Billy boy's henchmen.

Here's the way I see it: there are Windows zealots, Linux zealots, and fence-sitters.  I myself was a fence-sitter until one year ago.  It was at that time that I started to realize that there was life beyond Windows.  What did I do?  I wasn't quite sure about this "Linux thing" quite yet, so I decided to try some OSS flavours of FTP and HTTP servers for Windows.  You know the like, FileZilla and Apache and all those.  These were so infinitely better than anything Microsoft had EVER offered that I started getting into the "alternative browser" market.

Then I discovered Firefox.  It absolutely blows MSIE out of the water, but Windows has a little problem.  It seems the two are inextricably linked together... no problem, some nice gents at Microsuck helped me find a program called XPLite.  My primary problem with XP was that it had so little choice.  With that program, I removed file protection and yanked MSIE.  While I was at it, I supplanted Thunderbird where Outlook once stood.

After all this, I started to notice how much XP was starting to look like Linux, except for that damnable registry.  So what did I do?  One month ago today, I started to boot into Redhat on an almost-religious basis.  Recently, some of the members here helped me discover the Linux-NTFS project, with which I managed to finally get Redhat to read all the files I had stored on the XP partition!  As a result, I am now proudly booting into Linux on a daily basis.  What is XP to me now?  A file manager, which it always has been, little more.  A prettied-up, bloated interface to BitTorrent until I can get the Linux client to work properly.  Once Linux-NTFS supports stable writes to NTFS partitions, I'm going to dump XP altogether.

The point of the story is that not everybody transitions in a heartbeat.  In fact, I doubt that even YOU, kind sir, were convinced that Linux was "all that" the first time you "kicked the tires."  The point is that you need to meet the fence-sitters halfway.  If you start waving the Linux flag too soon, bragging about "I can do THIS with a shell script, you bloody Windows fanboy" too soon, you WILL lose them.  

In the fight against Microsoft, we need every person we can get - and if that means that we use Windows against its manufacturer for a time by using alternative products on it, what one might call guerilla warfare of sorts, then so be it.  We'll kick their asses on their terms, our terms, and the terms of everybody in between.  Until then, we need to convince people that OSS is NOT the Satanic force that M$ makes it out to be.  Brash elitism will never accomplish that.

[hm_murdock]

I think it's equally important not to act like MS is evil too. That sure as Hell doesn't help. A lot of people don't see a problem with them, and they'll see it as "silly", "childish", "immature", and to some of them its "jealousy".

Stop being such a child about it, BASHman. Grow up and live in the world that exists if I know somebody who wants to run Linux, I sit down with them and we discuss what they really want and need to do. Many times, we decide that Windows is better for them, and then I help them learn to make it run well.

It's not hard, it only takes some work... just like it takes some work for most people to make Linux run at all.

Linux is not perfect for everybody, just like Windows isn't.

You lose, BASHman.

[WMD]

quote:WMD,

Calling me an idiot won't change the fact that you've been on this site for almost a year, that you're a site moderator, and yet you still use Windows. That's what I just don't understand.

I apologize for myself, now.  And, I have an explanation for my use of Windows.  I don't really want to; I have Slackware 10 installed and it's my preferred environment.  It's the internet.  Most of what I do with my computers involve the internet, and since Linux came to exist via the communication provided by it, access is that much more important.

However, I don't have access in Linux, because Linksys didn't write drivers for the wireless USB card I have.  I've tried two sets of drivers for different chipsets, with no luck.  Therefore I'm stuck in Windows World.  I have a plan to buy a wireless-to-ethernet bridge device, and use my supported-in-Linux ethernet card.

Problem is, those aren't cheap, and I'm a 16-year-old without a steady income.  I could probably afford it, barely, but I have other things I want to buy, as well.  I can't decide yet.

That's why I still use Windows.  I hope this is enough for you to understand.

[dishawjp]

quote:
even YOU, kind sir, were convinced that Linux was "all that" the first time you "kicked the tires." The point is that you need to meet the fence-sitters halfway. If you start waving the Linux flag too soon, bragging about "I can do THIS with a shell script, you bloody Windows fanboy" too soon, you WILL lose them.

Midnight Candidate,

I agree with all that you posted about transitioning to OSS for those people first considering the move from MSWindows.  I also agree that bludgeoning people over the head for using MSWindows when they are not aware or only beginning to become aware of the alternatives is counterproductive.  My remarks were directed ONLY to those who were obviously aware of and well versed in OSS, AND who were members of MES (formerly FuckMicrosoft.com) AND who were still using MSWindows.  

What I was trying to say was that if even those people still felt that they had to use MSWindows, then maybe there was something wrong.  I wanted, but evidently failed, to to make clear the distinction between people who were new to Linux and OSS alternatives to MS products and those who were knowledgeable and had a good grasp of Linux and who professed a hatred of Microsoft, but who still used MSWindows.

I fully understand that there is a learning curve to Linux and that nobody can, will, or should just dump their data and OS and switch overnight.  My remarks, were directed to people who, in my opinion, should have the skills to have converted entirely and yet were still using and learning the latest versions of MSWindows.

 

quote:
I think it's equally important not to act like MS is evil too. That sure as Hell doesn't help. A lot of people don't see a problem with them, and they'll see it as "silly", "childish", "immature", and to some of them its "jealousy".

JimmyJames,

My remarks weren't directed to those people, they were directed towards members of this forum.  Long term members at that, who were still using Windows.  If you recall my first post in this thread, I specifically said that I understood the original poster's POV perfectly.  My remarks weren't directed to Microsoft lovers who would have seen them as "childish" or "silly," at least not intentionally.  I thought that I was posting to MicroSuck. I only was surprised/saddened to see that professed Microsoft haters with a good working knowledge of Linux, were still using MSWindows.  I was trying to understand why that was, and also implied that if that were the case, maybe Microsoft would win and the "Linux Revolution" was a lost cause.  

This is not a direct criticism of people who use both systems, but I find it upsetting that those who have the ability to switch and who claim to hate everything that Microsoft stands for, still use MS products.  

Is that clear?

 

quote:
However, I don't have access in Linux, because Linksys didn't write drivers for the wireless USB card I have. I've tried two sets of drivers for different chipsets, with no luck. Therefore I'm stuck in Windows World. I have a plan to buy a wireless-to-ethernet bridge device, and use my supported-in-Linux ethernet card.

WMD,

My turn to apologize.  That is a perfectly rational reason for using MSWindows. I withdraw any criticism I may have made of your use of both OS's.  I hope that you can get set up soon with internet access on Linux.  You'll love it.

Everyone,

I guess I started a bigger shitstorm here than I had intended.  What I was trying to point out is my disappointment if people who apparently had the knowledge, equipment and ability to switch from Microsoft to a good alternative AND who were members of a forum whose name was FuckMicrosoft.com still used MSWindows, then Linux, the BSD's and OSX were never likely to become mainstream OS's. That was my whole point.  No criticism of newbies transitioning to OSS, no criticism of people still learning and weaning themselves off Microsoft, no criticism of people still getting their hardware together or anything like that was intended.