Author Topic: Is the EULA about to become "unconstitutional"?  (Read 1449 times)

BouncingAyatollah

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Kudos: 0
    • http://www.bouncingayatollah.co.uk
Is the EULA about to become "unconstitutional"?
« on: 28 March 2004, 22:55 »
One very angry M$ consumer who suffered weeks of problems due to a Service Pack has hinted that the EULA may be about to be declared "unconstitutional". Interesting times!

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15001
The cheese would have to be subatomic size before quantum cheese effects would take over -- and then it wouldn't be identifiable as cheese any longer.

Xeen

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,065
  • Kudos: 55
Is the EULA about to become "unconstitutional"?
« Reply #1 on: 28 March 2004, 23:58 »
Well this is certainly interesting. However I do not think anythings going to happen.

Indeed, when you install software and agree to the EULA, you are actually agreeing that you accept any flaws that the software may have. Since the guy agreed to it, MS can't be held responsible. It's like he signed a contract. Even if the EULA is declared unconstitutional, he still can't get any reward because he agreed to the EULA and installed the software BEFORE the ruling.

The other question I have now is based on what exactly is it going to be declared unconstitutional? I do not remember the constitution mentioning anything about holding businesses accountable for their products' flaws.

BouncingAyatollah

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Kudos: 0
    • http://www.bouncingayatollah.co.uk
Is the EULA about to become "unconstitutional"?
« Reply #2 on: 29 March 2004, 00:24 »
I think the idea is that the EULA attempts to override Consumer Rights. In the UK at least a product should be "Of a satisfactory quality", "As described" and "Fit for purpose" (the purpose for which they are acquired). If a consumer finds goods failing any of these categories, under Consumer Rights they are entitled to replacements, refunds and if need be legal action. Therefore if this ruling goes through, all software will be accountable under the same rules, as the EULA cannot override basic Consumer Rights.

As an extra note - I have no idea of the specifics of US Consumer Rights btw but the gist will be the same I am sure.
The cheese would have to be subatomic size before quantum cheese effects would take over -- and then it wouldn't be identifiable as cheese any longer.

WMD

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,525
  • Kudos: 391
    • http://www.dognoodle99.cjb.net
Is the EULA about to become "unconstitutional"?
« Reply #3 on: 29 March 2004, 04:04 »
quote:
Originally posted by BouncingAyatollah:
In the UK at least a product should be "Of a satisfactory quality", "As described" and "Fit for purpose" (the purpose for which they are acquired). If a consumer finds goods failing any of these categories, under Consumer Rights they are entitled to replacements, refunds and if need be legal action.


Even if this is true for the US, the Microsoft lawyers will spew their bullshit about "software maintenence" and whatnot, and brainwash the government again.  :(
My BSOD gallery
"Yes there's nothing wrong with going around being rude and selfish, killing people and fucking married women, but being childish is a cardinal sin around these parts." -Aloone_Jonez

mobrien_12

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,138
  • Kudos: 711
    • http://www.geocities.com/mobrien_12
Is the EULA about to become "unconstitutional"?
« Reply #4 on: 29 March 2004, 04:30 »
quote:
Originally posted by xeen:

Indeed, when you install software and agree to the EULA, you are actually agreeing that you accept any flaws that the software may have. Since the guy agreed to it, MS can't be held responsible. It's like he signed a contract. Even if the EULA is declared unconstitutional, he still can't get any reward because he agreed to the EULA and installed the software BEFORE the ruling.



I am not a lawyer.
From what I understand, if a contract is later ruled illegal or unenforcable, it is not binding.
In brightest day, in darkest night, no evil shall escape my sight....

savet

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
  • Kudos: 228
Is the EULA about to become "unconstitutional"?
« Reply #5 on: 31 March 2004, 22:57 »
O'Brian is correct.  If an agreement violates state/federal laws, it's worthless.

Take for example contracts with minors.  Regardless of whether the minor knew the terms of the contract, they cannot be held to the terms should they decide to default.

And for a more twisted example...sex with a minor.  It doesn't matter if both parties agree.  Sex with a 12 year old is illegal no matter how much both parties consent...
You're just jealous cause the voices only talk to me...

Xeen

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,065
  • Kudos: 55
Is the EULA about to become "unconstitutional"?
« Reply #6 on: 31 March 2004, 11:12 »
quote:
Originally posted by Rio:
O'Brian is correct.  If an agreement violates state/federal laws, it's worthless.

Take for example contracts with minors.  Regardless of whether the minor knew the terms of the contract, they cannot be held to the terms should they decide to default.

And for a more twisted example...sex with a minor.  It doesn't matter if both parties agree.  Sex with a 12 year old is illegal no matter how much both parties consent...



You don't understand what I am saying. I'll use your example. Sure, sex with a minor is illegal even if both parties agree. BUT what if an adult had sex with a minor BEFORE there was a law saying it was illegal? Are they gonna go arrest every person who had sex with a minor before the law was passed? NO.

savet

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
  • Kudos: 228
Is the EULA about to become "unconstitutional"?
« Reply #7 on: 31 March 2004, 11:14 »
But if the EULA already violates consumer rights, as implied in the article, then it is in violation of the law before a any court ruling is made.  The court ruling is just confirming the violation.

So if consumer rights laws were changed and then the EULA was found in violation, you would be correct.

However, taking the consumer rights laws as they are, and assuming the EULA was agreed to after such laws were put in place, if it's found to be in violation, it would be void, or at least the portion in violation would be void.  Most good contracts anymore have a stipulation that allows the remainder of the agreement to remain in effect, and only the parts found to be illegal or unenforcable are removed.

Edits = late at night and half asleep

[ March 31, 2004: Message edited by: Rio ]

You're just jealous cause the voices only talk to me...