How Apple+Mac is better than Windows+Intel

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by Zombie9920:
BTW, the Windows being pre-installed wouldn't be a big issue for me even if I did buy an OEM computer because I feel Windows is just the best system to be running right now(I install Windows on systems I build for a living as well as systems I build for myself).

That's fine.... for you. I should not be forced to pay for a Windows license when I will not use it. What's so hard about offering a system with no OS?

 

quote:
 All PC games are made to run in Windows, almost every *popular* graphical, office, video editing, etc. app runs in Windows(Photoshop, Maya, AutoCAD, Microsoft Office, etc.). With Linux you have to rely on Open Source knock offs of the popular apps that try thier best to support the formats of the popular apps but always fall short. With Linux you have to rely on stuff like Wine to play alot of the popular games(Wine does not run most Win32 stuff flawlessly though).

Again, that's fine.... for you. I don't use Windows apps, I don't use Wine (Wine sucks, and not just because it's purpose is to run Windows apps). And I'm perfectly happy rely on those open source apps. I have been for years. I find them to work better and are more reliable than the apps you mention.

 

quote:Another reason why alot of OEMs do not choose to use Linux as an OS to pre-install on consumer computers is because Linux is too difficult for most consumers.

I'm not asking for Linux preinstalled. In fact I would rather get the PC in a "naked" state because chances are the OS would not be installed the way I want it installed anyway (or not be the flavor of Linux I like). Again, what's so hard about offering a naked PC?  It would certainly be easier on the manufacturer as they wouldn't have to deal with all that Microsoft red tape. That is, except for one thing. If they sell a naked PC Microsoft will fuck them.

[hm_murdock]

okay, you've got me convinced, then.

the benchmarks you link to are different from the ones I saw.

you've also finally made me decide that all x86 processors suck ass. If the P4 really is the best they have to offer, then fuck 'em all.

as for prices, that's based on local retailers' average prices, and on non-bleeding edge units.

AMD sucks, just not as much as Intel. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Besides, the issue is x86 vs PPC, not x86 vs x86.

PPC makes anything x86 look like a turd.

[Zombie9920]

If you want a naked PC then buy a barebones system and add a hard drive, CD-ROM, Floppy and Ram.

Barebone systems aren't hard to find. ;P

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by The Jimmy James / Bob:
okay, you've got me convinced, then.

the benchmarks you link to are different from the ones I saw.

you've also finally made me decide that all x86 processors suck ass. If the P4 really is the best they have to offer, then fuck 'em all.

as for prices, that's based on local retailers' average prices, and on non-bleeding edge units.

AMD sucks, just not as much as Intel. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Besides, the issue is x86 vs PPC, not x86 vs x86.

PPC makes anything x86 look like a turd.

You missed the benchmarks I posted a few posts back showing a single x86 CPU system(2.53ghz P4 Northwood) and a dual x86 CPU system(dual Athlon MP 2000+) wipe the floor with a dual 1ghz G4 system. The fastest PPC CPU available today doesn't have the balls to outpace the fastest x86 offerings. Sure, PPC may do more per clock cycle, but x86 reaches higher clock speeds which equates to the slower x86 CPU at higher speeds wiping the floor with the faster PPC that is stuck and has been stuck at lower speeds for a long time now.

By time Apple can make a CPU that competes with the current P4/Athlon line of CPU's Intel will already have 5ghz+ CPU's out.

Just to save you the time of finding the posted benchmarks I mention...here you go again. http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2002/07_jul/features/cw_macvspc2.htm

Macs are not all that like some of you people try to claim it is.

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by Zombie9920:
If you want a naked PC then buy a barebones system and add a hard drive, CD-ROM, Floppy and Ram.

Barebone systems aren't hard to find. ;P

They are hard to find in a store. It's hard to find laptops barebones (although I put up a link to a nice site that sells naked laptops).

The thing is, I want a Dell Inspiron, but I refuse to pay the Microsoft tax. Dell has lost a sale but they would lose a lot more by Microsoft penal action if they sold me that naked Inspiron. I would like to be able to buy a name brand PC without an OS or software. Actually I would still probably build my own desktop machines even though the name brand machine would likely be cheaper. Just can't build a laptop.

[Pantso]

Hey Zombie, perhaps you should dl the pdf file I linked my previous post to. Read it and pay close attention  

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by Panos:
Hey Zombie, perhaps you should dl the pdf file I linked my previous post to. Read it and pay close attention              

Everything that compared the PPC to P4 in your PDF was compared to the P4 Williamette. The Williamette core sucked big balls. Notice how I compare the P4 Northwood to the PPC. You need to update your shit man.

For the MTOPS, the PPC may achieve higher MTOPS numbers, but it doesn't show in modern apps. MTOPS don't mean a thing for real world performance(hence why the x86 can handidly beat the PPC in graphics, digital editing, audio, definatley gaming, etc.). Who gives a fuck about numbers that don't mean a thing in real world performance?      :rolleyes:    

Reasons for the G5 not being released yet - issues with the clock multiplier and cache coherency glitches . Man, that would make me want to put alot of faith into the G5.

Umm, I just noticed that the G5 article was written Oct. 18, 2001. It is Oct. 16th 2002 right now...where are the G5s? It has been about a year since that article was written.

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]

[DJ]

Not taking any sides (so don't flame) but here is something I found on a PowerMacG4 to add to the conversation we are all having

http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html

Sorry wanted to add this on as well

 
MacBidouille posted a rumor regarding the G5. English translation is provided by Sammy:


- Jaguar server will make it possible to netBoot os X and remote administration. - the factory which will manufacture new the G5 microprocessor will be in Grenoble. It is not finished yet.
- G5 will not even be available until the end of 2003, on the other hand it really exists and runs reliably. The manufacturing is, however, not very reliable in terms of loss and is too expensive for the moment.
- G4s will evolve -- but very little -- it is motherboards using Hypertransport (that of Xserve) and cache systems which will evolve.
- the new models of motherboards do not support os 9, it is thus finished definitively on the next machines.
- the core following of jaguar will be clusterisable on the system level... one then supposes a very evolutionary machine out of turn of xServe. (On a standard 42u rack, 39 Xserve dual 1Ghz machines and an xserve Raid with 1,68 To, using only one screen)
- For the first time of the history of Apple, a standard machine is made with recycled materials (Aluminum, etc) (??? not sure of this translation ???)
- The system composes of a main server and a slave server. The xServe slave autoswitchs to a Master, (in the event of breakdown of the Master), reswitches automatically when the solution of the breakdown is found! the user sees nothing there, only the administrator receives a message of breakdown of the first server.  

A little old but the full story can be seen at Clicky

for anyone who hasn't seen it yet

DJ

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Engineer ]

[Pantso]

quote:Originally posted by Zombie9920:


Everything that compared the PPC to P4 in your PDF was compared to the P4 Williamette. The Williamette core sucked big balls. Notice how I compare the P4 Northwood to the PPC. You need to update your shit man.

For the MTOPS, the PPC may achieve higher MTOPS numbers, but it doesn't show in modern apps. MTOPS don't mean a thing for real world performance(hence why the x86 can handidly beat the PPC in graphics, digital editing, audio, definatley gaming, etc.). Who gives a fuck about numbers that don't mean a thing in real world performance?     :rolleyes:    

Reasons for the G5 not being released yet - issues with the clock multiplier and cache coherency glitches . Man, that would make me want to put alot of faith into the G5.

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]

First of all it's not "my shit"    . Secondly, who the fuck cares about Williamete or Northwood "shit"? All I know is that Macs are faster, that's why they have always been the choice of Graphic Artists, Web designers etc. Perhaps you should update your "shit"    

The x86 platform is only for Linux which runs great on it and not for your pathetic excuse of operating system. Man I've been following your posts since the beginning and I have come to the following conclusion: you either have mazochistic tendencies or you may be under the illusion that posting in the MES forums will actually convert people back to Windows        Which one is it then? What do you hope to accomplish by posting here? Are you maybe trying to prove something?

Get something straight: Your arguments are based on rotten foundations, and anything THAT unstable can easily collapse. Perhaps that's why the only person who is convinced by your "arguments" is YOU.

 

[Zombie9920]

Look buddy, I already posted benchmarks showing that in th real world the modern x86 CPU's beat out the fastest available PPC's. I don't give a fuck about the stuff in that article that compares PPC to over a year old x86 processors.

Like I said, get some updated shit man. Oh yeah, you never answered me, where are the G5s'? That year old article in the PDF talked about G5's being available soon. Now where the fuck are they? Thats what I thought.  :rolleyes:

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by Engineer:
Not taking any sides (so don't flame) but here is something I found on a PowerMacG4 to add to the conversation we are all having

http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html

DJ

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Engineer ]

Those are benchmarks done by Apple. I wouldn't trust any benchmark that comes from the manufacturer(I wouldn't trust benchmarks from AMD, Intel, Apple, etc). Steve is known for benchmarking the G4 processors w/AltiVec enabled while leaving SSE2 disabled in the P4's.

You can't trust manufacturer benchmarks because the manufacturer(I don't care who it is) will do whatever they can to make thier product look the best.

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]

[Pantso]

quote:Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Oh yeah, you never answered me, where are the G5s'?

Hmm, I don't know I haven't talked to them recently.    :rolleyes:      . As for benchmark tests the web is full of them, biased and not (i think) and enough with this shittalk! I told you, it's not my shit honestly    

And why would I give a fuck about the G5s? My G3 and my 128 MBs of RAM do a great job with OS X (note: it has yet to crash)    

Oh yeah, you never answered me, what do you hope to accomplish and why does almost every web designer and graphic artist in the worls uses a Mac?

PS I'm saying this one more: The only OS that's good for the x86 platform is Linux or any other *NIX flavor!

[Zombie9920]

Not every web designer and graphics artist use a Mac. There are lots of them that use Windows x86 systems, Linux x86 systems, Unix on x86, Sun Sparc, DEC Alpha, etc.

As a matter of fact, most rendering farms do not consist of Macs. Apple holds a very small share of the computer market, like 3 or 4 percent I believe. More than 4% of the people in the world do web design, graphics art, digital video, etc. So what am I trying to say?..? I'm saying that you are full of FUD when you say MOST of those people use Macs.


For the what am I trying to accomplish posting here question. I'm not trying to accomplish anything actually. The forum is a nice little time waster. Besides, I enjoy debunking some of the lies that are posted at these kind of site(like saying a Pentium 4 will burn up...HAHAHAHA!).

Besides, I have just as much of a right to post here as you do so if you are trying to make me leave you may as well go talk to the walll or something. 'P

If Unix/Linux are the only thing x86 systems are good for then why do Windows PCs hold so much more marketshare than Unix, Linux and Mac boxes combined? Maybe because Unix and Linux are too difficult for most consumers and don't have support for popular apps and games, Macs are controlled by a control all egotistical freak like Steve Jobs and they have almost no gaming support whatsoever(Yeah, alot of people want a computer to work and play...not just work ;P).

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]

[Pantso]

Whatever makes you happy man! If being flamed makes you feel good then go ahead, this a democratic site after all.

Oh yeah, it was MADE ON A MAC too      

[Pantso]

quote:Originally posted by Zombie9920:
If Unix/Linux are the only thing x86 systems are good for then why do Windows PCs hold so much more marketshare than Unix, Linux and Mac boxes combined?

I think you already know the answer to that but it's not really to your interest to admit it.