How Apple+Mac is better than Windows+Intel

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by Panos:
Whatever makes you happy man! If being flamed makes you feel good then go ahead, this a democratic site after all.

Oh yeah, it was MADE ON A MAC too              

Actually I don't get flamed all that much. Alot of the Linux breathen like void main, Calum, MOR, etc. actually have some common sense and can debate without flaming.

The flames generally come from Mac zealots(with the exception of psyjax). A little flaming doesn't bother me, so I'm not going to run and hide from any of you. ;P

BTW, this site was made on a Mac but it bares a resembalence to Microsofts' site. The Mac can copy web designs and web layouts(You can do the very same stuff on a PC), big deal  :rolleyes: . I bet you I could have a Microsoft lookalike site built and up in less than a half an hour using Frontpage(which is by no means the best web creator program out there).
How ironic is that?

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]

[Pantso]

quote:Originally posted by Zombie9920:


Actually I don't get flamed all that much. Alot of the Linux breathen like void main, Calum, MOR, etc. actually have some common sense and can debate without flaming.

The flames generally come from Mac zealots(with the exception of psyjax). A little flaming doesn't bother me, so I'm not going to run and hide from any of you. ;P

BTW, this site was made on a Mac but it bares a resembalence to Microsofts' site. The Mac can copy web designs and web layouts(You can do the very same stuff on a PC), big deal   :rolleyes:  . I bet you I could have a Microsoft lookalike site built and up in less than a half an hour using Frontpage(which is by no means the best web creator program out there).
How ironic is that?

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]

Firstly, I'm not a Mac Zealot. I just happen to enjoy the hell out of mine. You could try using one, it won't bite    

Secondly, I totally agree with your judgement on those specific board members you mentioned above as well as for the majority of the MES boards members. They must have some common sense since they don't use Windows    Furthermore, I too can debate without flaming. After all, I didn't flame you, did I?

Thirdly, who told you to run and hide from me? who am I anyway to start chasing you around the boards? I'm not some weirdo you know    

Fourthly, the resemblance this site bears to M$s one is by all means intentional, so why did you bring that up. When I said that this site was made on a Mac, I commented as to the Webmaster's choice in using a Mac and nothing more.

Uhm, it's not ironic at all (referring to your last sentence) with the strict definition of the word irony. Of course you can, but why bother to mention that?

Anyway, to sum it up, I don't have anything against you personally. I just find it a bit odd for a pro-Windows user to have fun posting in the fuckmicrosoft forums. But then again it could be just me....

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by Zombie9920:
If Unix/Linux are the only thing x86 systems are good for then why do Windows PCs hold so much more marketshare than Unix, Linux and Mac boxes combined? Maybe because Unix and Linux are too difficult for most consumers and don't have support for popular apps and games, Macs are controlled by a control all egotistical freak like Steve Jobs and they have almost no gaming support whatsoever(Yeah, alot of people want a computer to work and play...not just work ;P).

Actually you were doing pretty good up until this. I submit to you that the *only* reasons Microsoft has the market share that they currently hold is due to *massive* marketing and strongarm tactics. Joe User goes to best buy to buy a computer, or he reads a Dell/Gateway add in the newspaper/magazine. Does Joe have a choice of what operating system he gets? For that matter, what percentage of Joe Users even *know* that there is any other operating system, or even what an operating system is? Sure some might give you a choice of operating systems. Let's see, would you like WindowsME or WindowsXP with that?

Again, Microsoft will not let any desktop/laptop leave Joe Users store without a Microsoft operating system license. Pretty easy to keep market share when this is the case. And it's pretty easy to understand why application developers would want to write apps for the OS that has that 97% market share.  But that's ok, I'm happy building my own machine even though it costs me more to do so. I end up with a better machine and the money I save by putting better free/Free software makes up the difference and then some).

You always bring this market share issue up and always have your facts incorrect on this particular issue. It is probably the biggest thing you have wrong. I actually agree with at least half of what you say lately, except for your incorrect beliefs about how M$ got to the market share they are at.

[voidmain]

I can have an exact duplicate of Microsoft's site in one command:

$ wget -r http://www.microsoft.com/

That is, if I didn't have it blocked at my firewall.  

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by void main:


Actually you were doing pretty good up until this. I submit to you that the *only* reasons Microsoft has the market share that they currently hold is due to *massive* marketing and strongarm tactics. Joe User goes to best buy to buy a computer, or he reads a Dell/Gateway add in the newspaper/magazine. Does Joe have a choice of what operating system he gets? For that matter, what percentage of Joe Users even *know* that there is any other operating system, or even what an operating system is? Sure some might give you a choice of operating systems. Let's see, would you like WindowsME or WindowsXP with that?

Again, Microsoft will not let any desktop/laptop leave Joe Users store without a Microsoft operating system license. Pretty easy to keep market share when this is the case. And it's pretty easy to understand why application developers would want to write apps for the OS that has that 97% market share.  But that's ok, I'm happy building my own machine even though it costs me more to do so. I end up with a better machine and the money I save by putting better free/Free software makes up the difference and then some).

You always bring this market share issue up and always have your facts incorrect on this particular issue. It is probably the biggest thing you have wrong. I actually agree with at least half of what you say lately, except for your incorrect beliefs about how M$ got to the market share they are at.

Well, Microsoft does have an OS monopoly going, I already know that....but the MS Operating Systems had to have been preferred in the beginning for OEM's to install them on every computer they sell. If people didn't like Windows in the beginning(and if most people didn't like Windows now) and the OEM's got nothing but complaints for pre-installing Windows I'm sure they wouldn't pre-install it on every machine.

The software had to have been something for it to gain market dominance in a course of a few years(Windows started to really take over since Win95).

[Pantso]

quote:Actually you were doing pretty good up until this.

Doing pretty good meaning?

 

quote:I submit to you that the *only* reasons Microsoft has the market share that they currently hold is due to *massive* marketing and strongarm tactics. Joe User goes to best buy to buy a computer, or he reads a Dell/Gateway add in the newspaper/magazine. Does Joe have a choice of what operating system he gets? For that matter, what percentage of Joe Users even *know* that there is any other operating system, or even what an operating system is? Sure some might give you a choice of operating systems. Let's see, would you like WindowsME or WindowsXP with that?

Simplistic but true nonetheless....

 

quote:I actually agree with at least half of what you say lately, except for your incorrect beliefs about how M$ got to the market share they are at.

Now that's an unpleasant surprise....

 

quote:I can have an exact duplicate of Microsoft's site in one command:

$ wget -r http://www.microsoft.com/

That is, if I didn't have it blocked at my firewall.

If that makes you happy....  

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by Zombie9920:
Well, Microsoft does have an OS monopoly going, I already know that....but the MS Operating Systems had to have been preferred in the beginning for OEM's to install them on every computer they sell. If people didn't like Windows in the beginning(and if most people didn't like Windows now) and the OEM's got nothing but complaints for pre-installing Windows I'm sure they wouldn't pre-install it on every machine.

In the beginning (of PCs) there wasn't much of a choice. If you wanted an IBM or compatible you pretty much had to deal with Microsoft. They were pretty much the only game in town. Even IBM PC-DOS was written by Microsoft if I remember right. And when OS/2 came out it was just as good or better than Windows but Microsoft was a marketing machine and really took over the clone vendors with strongarm deals. The clones were a lot cheaper than IBM machines. IBM was not happy about clones thus leaving Microsoft as the only OS vendor to go on the clones.

 

quote:The software had to have been something for it to gain market dominance in a course of a few years(Windows started to really take over since Win95).

And I suppose you don't remember the *huge* marketing campain they had for the launch of Win95?  They even bought popular songs (wasn't it Beetles songs?) to promote the release. Mass marketing. How many OS/2 Warp ads did you see? How many desktop ads have you ever seen for Linux? Not one, as in *no* marketing. The only marketing I have seen for Linux is from IBM for mainframe systems.

The point is, it would be easier for Dell, in addition to selling PCs with Windows, to also sell naked PCs. Microsoft won't let them. Or do you not believe me when I make the statement that Microsoft won't let them?

[hm_murdock]

::burps at Zombie::

I never flamed you... well I guess I kinda did after you said I was "full of shit"... oops! Didn't mean to sound bitter... oh, yeah I did.

Now, you keep asking why we insist that Macs are better and then throw benchmarks at us...

Better and faster are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

I went from a 1.1GHz PIII to a 500MHz iMac G3 when I switched. Speed doesn't mean shit for 98% of the things that people do.

How many people REALLY need a 3GHz processor? Few. How many people really need more than a 300MHz processor? Few.

Our Power Macs and Powerbooks and iBooks and iMacs and all are BETTER. That's all there is too it. We have a better OS (it's always been better than Windows, even before OS X), better hardware designs, better industrial design, better software packages, better user experience, everything is superior to a Windows PC.

Compared with a Linux PC, we're pretty well even on stability.

Now, here's a question. Why do people like you insist on rankin' on people because of what damned hardware platform we choose? Why does it really matter to you? How does the fact that I have an Apple computer hurt you?

I don't go around telling people that since they have a PC that they're misguided, or stupid. I simply inform them of the shortcomings of Windows, then I help guide them away toward whatever they choose, be it installing Linux, buying a Mac, or even going farther and trying something really different (had one friend scour eBay and get a PPC upgraded Amiga).

Windows sucks for nearly everything, but ESPECIALLY for media production. Get over it. Even a crappy x86 CPU becomes a respectable piece of equipment running Linux.

BTW, my computer can kick your honor student's ass.

[cocoamix]

Why do these threads always degenerate into processor pissing contests?
The main issue with me (and many others is not the hardware, but the OS[/i].

A VERY simple for instance, something that we all do occasionally, taking a screencap.

In this case, we'll look at a screencap of the lower left portion of your screen.

Windoze (all versions, AFAIK), hit "Print Screen" THEN go to an image editing app. Using the standard MSPaint, for instance, PASTE the clipboard, hitting the YES button when it tells you the clipboard contents are larger than the selected area.  Use MSPaint to crop out the bits you don't want. Oh wait, you CAN'T crop using MSPaint. You're SOL.
Anyway, you're stuck with a full screen cap, using ONLY M$ supplied tools.
Finally, SAVE the screencap as a bitmap that is 3 Megs in size.

In OS X, hit command+shift+4.  Using the crosshairs that pop up, drag around the area you want.  Done. A PDF of your screen cap appears on your desktop.

It's total bass-ackwwrads Windoze bullshit that eats up all the time that your x86 processor supposedly save you.

THAT, people, is what is more important to me than running a Photoshop filter I hardly ever use  5 seconds faster, or a few extra FPS on a game I never play.

Oh, that, and NEVER having to deal with a Virus.  

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by cocoamix:
Why do these threads always degenerate into processor pissing contests?
The main issue with me (and many others is not the hardware, but the OS[/i].

A VERY simple for instance, something that we all do occasionally, taking a screencap.

In this case, we'll look at a screencap of the lower left portion of your screen.

Windoze (all versions, AFAIK), hit "Print Screen" THEN go to an image editing app. Using the standard MSPaint, for instance, PASTE the clipboard, hitting the YES button when it tells you the clipboard contents are larger than the selected area.  Use MSPaint to crop out the bits you don't want. Oh wait, you CAN'T crop using MSPaint. You're SOL.
Anyway, you're stuck with a full screen cap, using ONLY M$ supplied tools.
Finally, SAVE the screencap as a bitmap that is 3 Megs in size.

In OS X, hit command+shift+4.  Using the crosshairs that pop up, drag around the area you want.  Done. A PDF of your screen cap appears on your desktop.

It's total bass-ackwwrads Windoze bullshit that eats up all the time that your x86 processor supposedly save you.

THAT, people, is what is more important to me than running a Photoshop filter I hardly ever use  5 seconds faster, or a few extra FPS on a game I never play.

Oh, that, and NEVER having to deal with a Virus.    

Ehh? I don't know who in thier right mind would use MSPaint over Photoshop, PaintShop Pro, etc. In MSPaint you don't have to save files as Bitmaps. It is perfectly capable of saving as gif, jpg, tif, png, jpe, jfif, jpeg, tiff as well as dib and bmp.

Your right about MSPaint not having a good cropping tool, but oh well, thats life. It isn't like people don't choose to use Photoshop on thier Macs over whatever crap paint program that Apple gives you(if any). Windows users have Photoshop too, so it is the same case scenerio in both boats.  :rolleyes:

[Fett101]

Looks cropped to me. And .jpg. Gave me 8 other choices for file types as well.

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: fett101 ]

[Chooco]

with MS paint, you must open a file in it before you can save as that type. just last week at my friend's house we tried to save a screenshot as jpg then upload it to tripod but we couldn't so i downloaded any old jpg from the net, opened it in MS Paint and we were suddenly able to save as jpg, weeeeee    

what is the crop btw

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: Chooco ]

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by Chooco:
with MS paint, you must open a file in it before you can save as that type. just last week at my friend's house we tried to save a screenshot as jpg then upload it to tripod but we couldn't so i downloaded any old jpg from the net, opened it in MS Paint and we were suddenly able to save as jpg, weeeeee                

what is the crop btw

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: Chooco ]

You must not be using paint in XP. The paint in XP isn't like that(it is actually improved just like everything else in XP). Of course not, you guys are afraid of XP.

Anywyays, the paint in XP lets you save as any of the file types I listed on the fly(right as soon as you paste a copied image you can save it as a jpg). It lets you convert any supported file type to another file type with no hassle at all...like gif to jpg, bitmap to gif, etc.

(EDIT)Look at this, I don't even have an image to save on MSPaint in XP and it still gives me the option to save as any file format that is supported by paint.


Anyways, if some of you people would use a versions of Windows that isn't primative(like the Win9x variants..they are primative) I'm sure that you would see that most of the crap you say about Windows isn't really true anymore. ;P

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]

[cocoamix]

Like I said, still a hitload of work compared to hitting Command+Shift+3...

And another thing, what if you want to take a SEQUENCE of caps over time?

You have a flash file and a QT movie file playing at the same time and you want to take a sequence of the whole screen every 2 seconds?

In OS X (and even in OS9), you just keep hitting Command+Shift+3 every 2 seconds and the files automatically appear on your desktop.

So how would you do this in Windoze?

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: cocoamix ]

[Calum]

who cares about windows? i've got gimp. (it's free, and if you're a REAL mor00n, you can run it in windows so you can bitch about how it's not the same as photoshop if you like).

also, i just had to comment:  

quote:They even bought popular songs (wasn't it Beetles songs?) to promote the release.

no, it was 'start me up' by the stones. The rolling stones had NEVER in 30 years sold the rights to use one of their songs in any advertising campaign. they said they never would. All of a sudden Bill Gates offers them $100,000 (or maybe 1,000,000 i forget what the stupidly large sum actually was) and hey presto 'start me up' is windows theme music on televisions across the whole world.