How Apple+Mac is better than Windows+Intel

[cocoamix]

quote:Originally posted by Calum:

also, i just had to comment:  no, it was 'start me up' by the stones. The rolling stones had NEVER in 30 years sold the rights to use one of their songs in any advertising campaign. they said they never would. All of a sudden Bill Gates offers them $100,000 (or maybe 1,000,000 i forget what the stupidly large sum actually was) and hey presto 'start me up' is windows theme music on televisions across the whole world.[/QB]

They should have used the line "You make a grown man cry" for promote Win95.

[xyle_one]

i love how heated these mac vs windows debates get. But it looks like it switched again to a hardware faceoff. again. i honeslty could care less about the hardware. i just want  computer that works. i dont want to get inside of it and toy around. it is fun, but i havent the time to get that into it.
 when i get a x86 system, the whole time i own it, im worryng about the hardware, trying to get everything to work together, and then just dealing with that one piece that refuses to cooperate. on my mac, i take it out of the box, plug it in, and im done. not once have i needed to open the case (except of course to show off how goddamn clean it is inside). out of everyone i know who owns a windows pc, all of them bitch and complain about how this doesnt work, that used to work, why is it crashing... and on and on. I have one freind who also owns a mac, and he has never bitched about it being buggy or crashing, or wanting to throw it out of a window. I have never had a complaint about my g4 either. given that, i would never go back to a windows pc. mac owners are "fanatics" for a reason, and i completely understand why.
ecsyle_one

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by Calum:
who cares about windows? i've got gimp. (it's free, and if you're a REAL mor00n, you can run it in windows so you can bitch about how it's not the same as photoshop if you like).

also, i just had to comment:  no, it was 'start me up' by the stones. The rolling stones had NEVER in 30 years sold the rights to use one of their songs in any advertising campaign. they said they never would. All of a sudden Bill Gates offers them $100,000 (or maybe 1,000,000 i forget what the stupidly large sum actually was) and hey presto 'start me up' is windows theme music on televisions across the whole world.

I tried gimp with Mandrake 9. Personally I think it sucks, I'll stick with Photoshop and Paintshop Pro. BTW, a name like GIMP is enough to make a person want to laugh at it.

[Refalm]

quote:Calum: no, it was 'start me up' by the stones. The rolling stones had NEVER in 30 years sold the rights to use one of their songs in any advertising campaign. they said they never would. All of a sudden Bill Gates offers them $100,000 (or maybe 1,000,000 i forget what the stupidly large sum actually was) and hey presto 'start me up' is windows theme music on televisions across the whole world.

I like the parody by Bob Rivers "Hook me up" (also know as "Windows 95 sucks").
Download the song here.

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by void main:


And I suppose you don't remember the *huge* marketing campain they had for the launch of Win95?  They even bought popular songs (wasn't it Beetles songs?) to promote the release. Mass marketing. How many OS/2 Warp ads did you see? How many desktop ads have you ever seen for Linux? Not one, as in *no* marketing. The only marketing I have seen for Linux is from IBM for mainframe systems.

The point is, it would be easier for Dell, in addition to selling PCs with Windows, to also sell naked PCs. Microsoft won't let them. Or do you not believe me when I make the statement that Microsoft won't let them?

True, MS uses thier Monopoly to force OEM's not to sell computers without Windows. OEM's don't want to fuck up thier contract with MS because they would lose alot of business if they could no longer pre-install Windows on thier machines(cause most of the world wants a PC with Windows).

At least you can get a Name Brand(name brand doesn't make shit to me cause I can build a better PC with a better looking case for cheaper than an OEM ;P) PC without an OS. Have you ever seen the Microtel line of computers without an OS pre-installed? They may not be Dells, but they are still name brand.

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]

[voidmain]

I somewhat agree that "most people" want them, but not for the reasons you are eluding to. Most people want them because 97% of the other people already have them, other people are producing documents in formats that are proprietary. The easiest way to be compatible with others is to use what others use. But proprietary data formats is another subject.

As far as the Microtel PCs go, they don't sell a Dell Inspiron laptop. I want a new Inspiron but I can't get it without buying a copy of Windows which I will never use. In my mind, it's not right, and not fair that I can't get an Inspiron and install whatever OS I want.

[xyle_one]

quote: Originally posted by Void Main
I want a new Inspiron but I can't get it without buying a copy of Windows which I will never use. In my mind, it's not right, and not fair that I can't get an Inspiron and install whatever OS I want.

hear hear. i agree, it isnt right. i would love to be ablt to order a dell without an os, or with any os. why should we be forced to purchase an os we will never use?

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by void main:
I somewhat agree that "most people" want them, but not for the reasons you are eluding to. Most people want them because 97% of the other people already have them, other people are producing documents in formats that are proprietary. The easiest way to be compatible with others is to use what others use. But proprietary data formats is another subject.

As far as the Microtel PCs go, they don't sell a Dell Inspiron laptop. I want a new Inspiron but I can't get it without buying a copy of Windows which I will never use. In my mind, it's not right, and not fair that I can't get an Inspiron and install whatever OS I want.

Can't you get a refund on an unwanted copy of Windows if you do buy a PC with it pre-installed(providing you get a Windows CD instead of a restore CD)? I don't know much about getting a Windows refund so please enlighten me?


If no, can't you find somebody who wants XP to sell the CD too? Tell them it is still in the wrap, has never been used, doesn't have any scratches on the CD, etc. and I'm sure they would buy it.

[xyle_one]

you shouldnt have to go through that kinda bullshit. i dont want to pay for windows. i dont want the cd, and i dont want to have to try and sell it to get my money back. About refunds on Windows, i understand it is near impossible to get one. i have never tried before, so i honestly dont know.

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: xyle_one ]

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by xyle_one:
you shouldnt have to go through that kinda bullshit. i dont want to pay for windows. i dont want the cd, and i dont want to have to try and sell it to get my money back. About refunds on Windows, i understand it is near impossible to get one. i have never tried before, so i honestly dont know.

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: xyle_one ]

I agree that you should have options to buy any OEM PC with no OS pre-installed. I really don't see how selling a naked PC would be breaching Microsoft agreements. MS doesn't want other OSes pre-installed and it would be a direct violation of Microsofts' OEM licensing agreement to sell a PC with another OS pre-installed...but I'm sure there has to be a loophole for OEMs to be able to sell a PC with NO OS at all(nothing is installed so how is that breaking the "do not install another OS agreement" in the contract?).

It seems to be a complicated issue, but I do have to whole heartidly agree that you should not be forced to buy something you don't want.

I come from the DIY world so I'm not too keen on the issues of dealing with OEM's.

(EDIT)Just to throw some fuel on the Mac vs. PC fire....can you buy a new Mac with no OS pre-installed? What if I want to buy a naked Mac to install Linux on and I don't want to pay for MacOS?(EDIT)

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]

[Calum]

GOOD POINT! answer that, mac people!
(i'm sure there is a good answer, so in liht of recent criticisms of my style, nobody take this challenge personally, okay?  

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by Zombie9920:


Can't you get a refund on an unwanted copy of Windows if you do buy a PC with it pre-installed(providing you get a Windows CD instead of a restore CD)? I don't know much about getting a Windows refund so please enlighten me?


If no, can't you find somebody who wants XP to sell the CD too? Tell them it is still in the wrap, has never been used, doesn't have any scratches on the CD, etc. and I'm sure they would buy it.

I believe the answer is no in both cases. From everything I've read, those that have tried to get a refund for a preinstalled OS will get nothing but a runaround. And I believe you can not resell a preinstalled version of XP.

And even if I could, it is insulting to me that I would have to do this. How friggin' hard can it be just to sell me a naked Inspiron?  Technically it's easier than selling a Windows preloaded version. But as I said, Microsoft will not let them. I do buy Dell PowerEdge servers with RedHat preloaded (I usually wipe them and reinstall RedHat the way I want anyway so I would rather get them without an OS but that is not an option AFAIK).

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]

[xyle_one]

quote: Originally posted by Zombie:
Just to throw some fuel on the Mac vs. PC fire....can you buy a new Mac with no OS pre-installed? What if I want to buy a naked Mac to install Linux on and I don't want to pay for MacOS?

to be perfectly honest and fair, you cant. same bullshit, apple bundleing their os with hardware. There should be a choice. personally, i wouldnt by an apple computer with no macOS. if i wanted to run linux, id run it on an x86. but i think that argument can get all turned around by windows fans. I would however, love to by a g4 case for my dual athlon system.

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: xyle_one ]

[Pantso]

What the fuck are you saying? The main reason I bought my Mac was OS X that beats the shit out of windows. If I want to run Linux on it, I'll do so by installing a Linux PPC distro! So what's the point in asking such a dumb question?

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by Panos:
What the fuck are you saying? The main reason I bought my Mac was OS X that beats the shit out of windows. If I want to run Linux on it, I'll do so by installing a Linux PPC distro! So what's the point in asking such a dumb question?

It is a legit question. My point is, Apple does the very same shit that Microsoft does but some people tend to overlook that fact. Apple is a monopoly also..and if they were the big guys and MS were the little guys Apple would be a far worse monopoly than what MS is. MS wants control of the software market, Apple wants complete control(of the hardware and software market).

You see, maybe some people like the way a Mac box looks but they don't want to run MacOS. Maybe the person doesn't want to pay for MacOS considering he/she won't use it.

At least with a PC you can get a naked box(maybe not the one you particularly want..but there are some naked PC choices). You don't get that option with Macs.

Saying MacOS kicks the shit out of Windows is a personal opinion. Maybe some people like Windows better than MacOS. Maybe some people like Linux better than MacOS and of course some people like Linux better than Windows. It is all personal preference. As a matter of fact, Windows can do more out of the box than MacOS can(I'll dig up the comparison article I posted a long time ago in a few).  

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]