Windows XP Service Pack 2 Build 2082

[Canadian Lover]

Wow... is Solaris retarded?

[hm_murdock]

Very likely so!

[solarismka]

quote:Originally posted by Viper:
At the moment there is no way to disprove his postings. SP2 is still new and we have yet to see any new vulnerabilities. At this point and time there is no way to prove wether it is going to do any good or not. He is posting that it isn't any good with no proof to back the statement up whatsoever.

[ August 10, 2004: Message edited by: Viper ]

You use what has happened in the past!

Service Packs have been around a long time!

They have not worked.

http://forum.microsuck.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000135
http://discuss.fogcreek.com/joelonsoftware/default.asp?cmd=show&ixPost=64283
http://www.google.ca/search?num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&q=%22patch+for+a+patch%22+%2B%22Microsoft%22&spell=1

The evedence is there.  You choose to ignore it.

[solarismka]

quote:Originally posted by Aloone:
Solaris is arguing that Windows hasn't improved since 95 and that there is no benefit in using any of the previous patches.

We all know he is wrong and there also is a lot of technical evidence to prove him wrong too, so there's no point in trying to argue with him.

Npo, you THINK i'm wrong.  That does not mean that I AM wrong.

 

quote:
As you have already stated Solaris is a Linux zealot, even if  LongHorn is really good  (although very unlikely), he will still continue to ague that it's no better than XP.

Know what a zealot is before you lable someone with it.  You have NO idea what your talking about.

[solarismka]

quote:Originally posted by JimmyJames: GenSTEP Founder:
[qb]Actually, Solaris, I don't support Apple anymore. I Have a Mac and OS X, but it certainly isn't my #1 thing anymore.

I support Linux and Windows.

ok.

 

quote:
Linux because it's the next big thing. Windows because, for me anyway, it just works, the same way OS X does.

ok good for you. I however do not feel the same way.

     

quote:Now, first, let's point out the problems with your "debate style"... and I use that phrase loosely. This is how I present my argument.

ok lets look....


 

quote:"I find Linux and Windows XP to both be equal in quality. In stability, security, and software/hardware support."

That is your opinion.  However arguing to me that Windows has supirior support over Linux IS incorrect.

     

quote:Your rebuttal:

"YOU A LIE!! Windows cannote be goode becas it is Micrasoft! The bloat and bloat and virus and bloat and IE and bloate and bloat and security and bloat!

No thats YOUR rebuttel.  Not mine.


     

quote:My reponse to you:

"I said that I have found this to be true. Your mileage my vary. For me, there have been no problems."

Thats fine.  I never disagreed with that.  

     

quote:
Your tirade:

"BUT WINDOWSE CANT'E BE GOOD! MIRCOSOFT DOES EVERTHING WRONG FOR TEH MONEY!! THE PR MACIHNE!! THE BLOAT THE BLOAT THE BLOAT THE BLOAT! BILL GATES! BLOAT BLOAT BLOAT BLOAT!! DRIVERS AND BLOAT!! BLOATED DRIVERS!! SECURITY BLOAT!!"

No, That is YOUR blabering there.  

     

quote:
What is your personal stake in this? How is your life affected by what OS somebody runs? Somebody you'll never meet. What did Microsoft Corp. ever do to you to make you so damn hostile?

What hostility.  Oh no!  He runs Linux and says it has good driver support!  He does not believe in M$'es FUD, he MUST be a zealot.  He MUST be evil Linspire blah blah blah.......

I couldn't care less what OS anyone runs.  What you run is your own choice.  But to state that windows has the same quailty in security and design is laughable.

     

quote:Chill the fuck out and shut your mouth. We're tired of you hijacking and ruining threads with your PR MACHINE.

You should really count yourself in that sentence since you've been trolling since day one.  All you do is 'hijack' threads with 'STFU,' whinners or some sort of immature complaints and or rants that don't make any sense.

So I'll give that advice to you.  Unless you have somthing constructive other than complaining about a member STFU!!!

     

quote:
SP 2 was designed to address all the things you constantly bitch about.

So far it has not.  I've tested it and so far it HAS done the same thing as before.  Which is breaking applications, slowing down the machine etc...

     

quote:1) Security. Service Pack 2 includes numerous security updates. These range from revamped versions of IE and OE, to the new comprehensinve firewall, to low-level architectural changes that protect system memory.

So far the memory managment seems to be the same since I do not see any performance increase in XP.  Secondly, like you said its still being tested.  So I'll say it is 'secure' when it is in the real world and not because M$ says so.


     

quote:2) Compatibility. SP 2 does break some things, particularly older (pre-Win98) apps, but what's more important to you? Running that decade-old calendar app, or security?

If M$ was patching properly then such a question would never matter.  

     

quote:For newer apps, compatibility is better, as SP 2 benefits from two more years nearly of compatibility development over SP 1.

I've run new database as well as financial software.  M$ Money for exsample which stopped working because of this pacth.  The fire wall still does not provide a proper level of protection towards trojans as far as I can see and because of the added firewall and antivirous software, brings instability into the OS.  Something that such companies Zone Alarm has already taking care off.  

But then why on earth does a software fire wall or antivirus application currupt windows in the forst place.  Just because one simply updates a .dat file should not constitute the machine for instabillity.


     

quote:3) Networking and hardware. SP 2 has greatly enhanced support for network hardware, especially wireless.

All one needs is the setup file for the hardware that they need.  It does not change the fact that it still has flaky driver support to which the system becomes unstable just because he or she has installed a driver onto the system.

     

quote:Configuring wireless networking is now as brain-dead simple as it is on OS X.

plugs wireless card in.  Installes driver.  Windows fails to initialize the driver and now freezes up.  Uninstalls driver.  Looks into the control pannel.  Reinstalls driver. Same problem persists But this time there is two copies of the same driver.  Tries to remove driver.  Register becomes currupt.....


     

quote:4) New Microsoft Shut The Hell Up XP. I hear they put that in just for you, Solaris.

You mean for you since ALL you do is complain at everyone.  Oh solaris is so mean.......

   

quote:
Here's a screenshot using the "Star Trek" theme in the app.

Yes, it fits someone like you nicely!    

[ August 10, 2004: Message edited by: kn0wn / BOB ]

[solarismka]

quote:Originally posted by Canadian Lover:
Wow... is Solaris retarded?

So I do not agree with the FUD that viper and aloone spread.  


That makes me retarted.  I think its time you looked up that definnition.

[hm_murdock]

We do know what a zealot is... YOU. If you don't like the label (not "lable") then change your ways.

You expect us to go along with whatever you say. We say "I've never had a problem with insert thing here."

You flame back, "Your supid for you are say something diffrent from what i say! Insert thing here is made by insert evil company here and hase to be badd becos is is not Lunix!"

You NEVER back up your claims, because you ALWAYS PRESENT YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AS THOUGH IT IS "THE ONE TRUE WAY". You saw things go bad, and therefore it must always be so. The rest of us be damned. Our personal experience doesn't mean jack shit next to great Solaris, the wise and genius sage.

Shut up.

[Canadian Lover]

quote:Originally posted by kn0wn / BOB:


So I do not agree with the FUD that viper and aloone spread.  


That makes me retarted.  I think its time you looked up that definnition.

Oh, let me clarify; I meant your spelling and grammer skills and use of [qb] and

tags makes you look like you're still studing "Language Arts" in elementary school.

This program will help you:
http://www.openoffice.org

[ August 10, 2004: Message edited by: Canadian Lover ]

[solarismka]

quote:Originally posted by JimmyJames: GenSTEP Founder:
We do know what a zealot is... YOU. If you don't like the label (not "lable") then change your ways.

A zealot spreads fantasies repeated by that of a company instead of facts and or experiences he or she has.  Sorry I do not fit into that catagory since I do not believe something just because a major corperation says its fine.  Expecially if that corperation has been wrong many times before.


 

quote:
You expect us to go along with whatever you say.

no! YOU expect ME to go along with whatever you say since its YOU that are labling me a 'zealot' just because I do not agree with M$'es FUD.


 

quote:We say "I've never had a problem with insert thing here."

And I have.  So....

 

quote:You flame back, "Your supid for you are say something diffrent from what i say! Insert thing here is made by insert evil company here and hase to be badd becos is is not Lunix!"

No thats YOU who continues on with that.  But then you would.

 

quote:You NEVER back up your claims, because you ALWAYS PRESENT YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AS THOUGH IT IS "THE ONE TRUE WAY".

I have.  See links that I posted to viper!  Just because my experience is not the same as yours does NOT mean that you are automatically right and Linux has terrable support.


 

quote:You saw things go bad, and therefore it must always be so.

No.  I responded to Aloone who constantly states that Linux is bad at driver support when in fact it is not.  

I then responded here that SP2 is the same as all the others BECAUSE the symtoms ARE the same!  I have posted links and explained my thoughts on this.  Don't worry though.  I know thats too much for you to understand.  If people don't agree with you then they MUST be wrong.  They must be evil.

 

quote:The rest of us be damned. Our personal experience doesn't mean jack shit next to great Solaris, the wise and genius sage.

Well, thanks for the compliment.  But I did account for your experience.  If you find that SP2 helped then good for you!  That does not mean that SP@ is the absolute holy grail of the perfect M$ windows.  


 

quote:
Shut up.

yes, do that!

[solarismka]

quote:Originally posted by Canadian Lover:

Oh, let me clarify; I meant you spelling, grammer and use of [qb] and

tags.[/b]

So.  Just because of my use of such tags you can lable me as such?

Don't think so!  Besides I'm not a troll.  I do not look at peoples use of grammer or spelling mistakes as an exuse.  I actually have a point in my message.

[Canadian Lover]

quote:Originally posted by kn0wn / BOB:


So.  Just because of my use of such tags you can lable me as such?

Don't think so!  Besides I'm not a troll.  I do not look at peoples use of grammer or spelling mistakes as an exuse.  I actually have a point in my message.

Here we go agian with the "you are a troll" scenario

[hm_murdock]

It seems strange that I would come back with something like "YOU A LIE!! Windows cannote be goode becas it is Micrasoft! The bloat and bloat and virus and bloat and IE and bloate and bloat and security and bloat!", as I support the opposite viewpoint.

 

quote:However arguing to me that Windows has supirior support over Linux IS incorrect.

Because your opinion is fact? Oh, yes. I forgot that... no matter what anybody says and how much authority or support their argument has... your statement ALWAYS overrules and is ALWAYS right.

I'll remember that next time.

 

quote:What hostility. Oh no! He runs Linux and says it has good driver support! He does not believe in M$'es FUD, he MUST be a zealot. He MUST be evil Linspire blah blah blah.......

I couldn't care less what OS anyone runs. What you run is your own choice. But to state that windows has the same quailty in security and design is laughable.

Then why don't you answer the question? Why don't you say:

"I have no personal stake and I don't care, so I'm gonna stop making claims that I can't support."

No, instead, you take the time to dish out more ad hominem attacks. "To state your opinion that Windows has the same quality is laughable". Oh, yes, that's another thing I forgot. My opinions are worthless compared to yours, almighty Solaris.

 

quote:You should really count yourself in that sentence since you've been trolling since day one. All you do is 'hijack' threads with 'STFU,' whinners or some sort of immature complaints and or rants that don't make any sense.

Strange... there seem to be plenty where I haven't done that.

BTW, don't bother digging up "evidence" for your side.

 

quote:Secondly, like you said its still being tested.

Incorrect. I said that time will tell. It's not "still being tested"... it was released today.

 

quote:   posted August 10, 2004 08:47 PM      Profile for kn0wn / BOB        Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote

    quote riginally posted by JimmyJames: GenSTEP Founder:
    [qb]Actually, Solaris, I don't support Apple anymore. I Have a Mac and OS X, but it certainly isn't my #1 thing anymore.

    I support Linux and Windows.

    ok.

   

   Linux because it's the next big thing. Windows because, for me anyway, it just works, the same way OS X does.

ok good for you. I however do not feel the same way.

    quote:Now, first, let's point out the problems with your "debate style"... and I use that phrase loosely. This is how I present my argument.
   

    ok lets look....


   

"I find Linux and Windows XP to both be equal in quality. In stability, security, and software/hardware support."

That is your opinion. However arguing to me that Windows has supirior support over Linux IS incorrect.

    quote:Your rebuttal:

    "YOU A LIE!! Windows cannote be goode becas it is Micrasoft! The bloat and bloat and virus and bloat and IE and bloate and bloat and security and bloat!

No thats YOUR rebuttel. Not mine.


    quote:My reponse to you:

    "I said that I have found this to be true. Your mileage my vary. For me, there have been no problems."

Thats fine. I never disagreed with that.

    quote:
    Your tirade:

    "BUT WINDOWSE CANT'E BE GOOD! MIRCOSOFT DOES EVERTHING WRONG FOR TEH MONEY!! THE PR MACIHNE!! THE BLOAT THE BLOAT THE BLOAT THE BLOAT! BILL GATES! BLOAT BLOAT BLOAT BLOAT!! DRIVERS AND BLOAT!! BLOATED DRIVERS!! SECURITY BLOAT!!"


No, That is YOUR blabering there.

    quote:
    What is your personal stake in this? How is your life affected by what OS somebody runs? Somebody you'll never meet. What did Microsoft Corp. ever do to you to make you so damn hostile?

What hostility. Oh no! He runs Linux and says it has good driver support! He does not believe in M$'es FUD, he MUST be a zealot. He MUST be evil Linspire blah blah blah.......

I couldn't care less what OS anyone runs. What you run is your own choice. But to state that windows has the same quailty in security and design is laughable.

    quote:Chill the fuck out and shut your mouth. We're tired of you hijacking and ruining threads with your PR MACHINE.


You should really count yourself in that sentence since you've been trolling since day one. All you do is 'hijack' threads with 'STFU,' whinners or some sort of immature complaints and or rants that don't make any sense.

So I'll give that advice to you. Unless you have somthing constructive other than complaining about a member STFU!!!

    quote:
    SP 2 was designed to address all the things you constantly bitch about.

So far it has not. I've tested it and so far it HAS done the same thing as before. Which is breaking applications, slowing down the machine etc...

    quote:1) Security. Service Pack 2 includes numerous security updates. These range from revamped versions of IE and OE, to the new comprehensinve firewall, to low-level architectural changes that protect system memory.


So far the memory managment seems to be the same since I do not see any performance increase in XP. Secondly, like you said its still being tested. So I'll say it is 'secure' when it is in the real world and not because M$ says so.


    quote:2) Compatibility. SP 2 does break some things, particularly older (pre-Win98) apps, but what's more important to you? Running that decade-old calendar app, or security?

If M$ was patching properly then such a question would never matter.

    quote:For newer apps, compatibility is better, as SP 2 benefits from two more years nearly of compatibility development over SP 1.

I've run new database as well as financial software. M$ Money for exsample which stopped working because of this pacth. The fire wall still does not provide a proper level of protection towards trojans as far as I can see and because of the added firewall and antivirous software, brings instability into the OS. Something that such companies Zone Alarm has already taking care off.

But then why on earth does a software fire wall or antivirus application currupt windows in the forst place. Just because one simply updates a .dat file should not constitute the machine for instabillity.

Another problem is you don't seem to understand how things work.

Part of SP 2 is... are you listening? I'm only going to say it once... here it is... architectural changes. What does that mean? I'm glad you asked...

Memory protection - This doesn't have jack to do with performance. It's about sheltering memory from being overwritten improperly. The new protection concepts used in XP SP2 are devised to protect memory from being overwritten by outside sources. This essentially ELIMINATES THE BUFFER OVERRUN EXPLOIT.

Execution protection (NX) - This protects your computer by not allowing program code that exists in data memory to be executed. It fully separates program code and data so that virii cannot write malware code to unprotected data memory and have it be executed.

 

quote:All one needs is the setup file for the hardware that they need. It does not change the fact that it still has flaky driver support to which the system becomes unstable just because he or she has installed a driver onto the system.

For the love of Christ, will you ever drop that?

You can't discuss anything intelligently because whenever something comes up, all you do is throw out one of your catch phrases...

Solaris's Catch Phrases

Bloat bloat bloat!

Buggy drivers that make the system unstable!

Microsoft PR Machine!

And Many More!

 

quote:plugs wireless card in. Installes driver. Windows fails to initialize the driver and now freezes up. Uninstalls driver. Looks into the control pannel. Reinstalls driver. Same problem persists But this time there is two copies of the same driver. Tries to remove driver. Register becomes currupt.....

Yes, this is obvisously how it works every time. All those people who use wireless LAN all the time... they're living in a delusion. Their drivers don't actually work, and their systems are really just constantly showing a BSOD... they've been brainwashed by Big Brother Gates and the Microsoft PR Machine!

[hm_murdock]

quote:Just because my experience is not the same as yours does NOT mean that you are automatically right and Linux has terrable support.

That's rich. I never said it had terrible support. I said...

"Linux can have a hard time with bad drivers."

The same goes for:
Windows 9x
Windows NT
Mac OS 9
Mac OS X
OPENSTEP
Be OS
Amiga
ReactOS
BSD UNIX
AT&T System V UNIX
SCO UNIX
Minix
VMS

Shall I continue?

Any OS can get a buggy driver, smart guy.

[solarismka]

To clarify my position.  I have tested XP pro with SP2.  I've used the trojan Optix Pro to see if the fire wall would block it.

It did not. Passed right on through.  When I was installing a wifi card.  A Dlink DWL-650+ AirPluse card, it also had truble detecting and installing the drivers for said card.  This IS MY experiance with XP SP2!  YOURS MIGHT BE DIFFERENT!

As I have said before.  After rebooting with SP2 installed the machine was all of a sudden sluggish which was not present before the patch.  Also some programs such as M$ money faild to work.

That is MY experiance.  From past news stories and other peoples experience out there (osnews.com), seems to be the same tale as previous service packs.  

Of course your experiance may be different.  But I have already explained my take to why M$ might not be improving or why this service pack does not help much.


http://nwc.securitypipeline.com/network/26100978
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1415267,00.asp
http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnews/breakingnews.jhtml;jsessionid=VVPFIRZXAVGHYQSNDBESKHA?articleId=23905071

This is not FUD!  Just because I do not agree with you DOES NOT mean that SP2 will not work for you.  But I have printed some articles in hopes to at least clarify where the hell I am comming from.  The complaints that I have with windows ARE VALID.  If you choose to ignore them then, hey that is your decision.

[Canadian Lover]

quote:
Solaris: retarted; terrable; truble

So declaring people as a troll gives you the right to misspell?

[ August 10, 2004: Message edited by: Canadian Lover ]