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Is it just me...

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psyjax:
WOW! Well aren't you Holier than thou. What the hell man?

I have said this once and I have said it a thousand times. How do you expect people to get in to the more complicated aspects of computing if they can't even use the machine to begin with.

I wasn't born a hacker, I was raised on Apple II's and Commodor 64's. Just because I only knew the standard file navigating command-line functions, and not the more detailed technocal bits, didn't religate me to the realm of idiot.

I know plenty of Linux and UNIX people who know the OS and aren't programmers. Does that make them idiots? Are they more inteligent because they can memorize a more archaic or complicated OS?  Are they stupid because they only use the OS to run specific aplications and have no aspirations to deleve in to the programming or hardware aspects?

Your logic is as flawd as a mechanic claiming that no one who dosn't know how to repair an automobile should ever touch a screwdriver because they are to stupid to use it, and aren't aware of the power it truely wields.

Besides, no one should be able to dictate who and who shouldent use a computer. It's not your place.

I have been using Computers all my life. When I first stated I didn't know jack, today I can take apart my machine and tell you what every pice is and does. I know asembly, I can go in and out of the GUI and can do anything I want.

I would have never gotten that far had I not had a simple starting point to get me hooked and interested. Despite all this however, I still mostly use my computer for duble clicking around, browsing the net, and doing my homework. Man I must really be a moron   .

Hell, the old UNIX days, people would log time on the mainframes to run certain aplications. The people who used those programms werent necessarly techheads who knew the machine and OS inside and out. They new the program, they used it as a tool. This dosn't make them stupid.

Wake up. You knowing more about computing dosn't make you more special or inteligent than anybody else, Im sure you werent born with a technical manual in your mouth.

Kintaro:

quote:Originally posted by Xenoran:
As much as I dislike participating in this, I will outline 5 things that Windows (2000/XP will be versions in question) can do that Linux can't.

1) Host a Microsoft Exchange Server, an invaluble reasource to any corporation who relies heavily on the Microsoft Office Suite.

My dads office rely on bloated crap, and there
server runs solaris.


2) Utilize advanced 3D accelerators at their full potential through DirectX, for the most part Linux is limited to OpenGL optimizations and is unable to use the built in DirectX optimizations.

I use windows and Linux
What was Q3A twice as fast in linux (Red-Hat 7.2)
You may have linux but YOU CANT USE IT.

3) Rely completely on the GUI without any command line dependancies. The X GUIs such as KDE and Gnome have come a long way in making Liux more user friendly, but high level vital functions still require the use of the command line (the terminal if X is running). Without any command line knowledge, Linux can still be used through KDE but it will basically be limited to being a word processor / web box.

My Red-Hat 7.2 install is just about gui'd all the time. And i only use the shell because i'm soo
l337. My mum office now has moved to linux.
And she says she hasnt had her computer crash yet.
It used too crash all the time!!!

4) Use a driver certification system, through the use of WHQL driver certification, drivers can be guarenteed to be stable in the OS they are certified for. This is very valuble for less skilled users, with that system in place Windows can be set to reject any non-WHQL drivers and prevent a less skilled user from installing faulty drivers.

When you can view the Source of a driver, and can
see how it works its much better.
You seem to look as if you are a member of the Microsoft team.

5) Support the majority of hardware and software out on the market. This is a major plus for consumers, through all of the support Windows has throughout the hardware and software industries the users will be open to a much broader range of products that will work with their system.

Thats because they pay Hardware vendors to ONLY make there hardware for windows, and the same with software. Thats WHY we hate them and thats why there a MONOPOLY and thats why they wont be around
much longer.

And while I've completed my list, I would like to point out a few things in your list.

That one was correct... Linux is definately THE platform for programming.

Now, in closing I think I should clear a few things up on where my opinions stand. First, when I defend Windows, I am only defending the NT variations of it, Win9x was without a doubt a horrible OS, almost the the point of being unusable. Second, I do not hate Linux, it simply doesn't fit my needs for anything other than my HTTP/FTP/IRC server, I feel it's an excellent OS for most servers and for programming, it just leaves a lot to be desired in the feild of general desktop usability. And finally, Apple... Apple is a company I strongly dispise, they depend  heavily on hype and aesthetics, neither of which matter in terms of real performance and as a company, they engage in some very childish mudslinging.

You "sort of" have a point.
I actually like windows 2000.
But Red-Hat linux is just the same.

I paid $30 for Red-Hat
And Windows was $300 when my mum got it
(5 user licence) and now she use's ONLY LINUX
at her bissness (which she runs)
She also says she happy that Red-Hat is cheap and
she is allowed too intall it on more than 5 machines.
This allows small bisnesses to reach greater goals. My mumz work is the best example of
"The funcional Office"
And compare prices of GNUcash and quickbooks.

Oh and red-hat came with star office.

Price per fuctioninal office workstation software running linux  : $30 for the first machine.
        windows: $1000+ per machine

WIndows price include MicroSith office, windows 2000, Quicken Quickbooks, And more.


Well, that's my two cents...

[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: Xenoran ]
--- End quote ---

Brent:
Very interesting debate.  One thing I did notice was that at no time did "not registered" call any one he may have dissagreed with a childish name like "fucktard" or "needledick".  I believe he conducted himself in a very MATURE manner which is more than I can say for some.  Most of the arguements are far beyond me because I am only as I admit, an "average user" The more I read on here, the more I believe that Linux is basically a programmer/IT professionals system. The average person doesnt know or even care about 95% of the stuff you were talking about.  
He is right about one thing I do understand and that is What in the hell are you people doing that caused your windows systems to crash every 5 minuts????  I have yet to have a crash with xp and had very very few with 98se.  You guys get one debater on here that discusses things in an ADULT manner and you trash him by calling him childish names until he simply gives up in frustration.  That is winning a debate?? I dont think so...
My turn... call me names.. I dont particularily give a shit.  Wake up guys and gals... stop kneeling at the alter and realize that there is a world beyond linux.  If this site does not encourage open debate, it should state that fact. The childishness of some on here, almost makes me puke. It would be interesting to have a poll and see what the average age of the participants is. Linux experience and life experience are obviously 2 different things. Calling people who dissagree with you stupid names may be considered fun to some, but to others, it may be insulting and considered reason enough to dismiss you as being not worthy of intellegent debate.  He is also correct about close mindedness. Other than organized religion, ive never seen so much close mindedness and narrow mindedness.. Some of you are obviously very well trained as programmers, or some other type of IT professional. Is this indicative of the quality of people in the profession?  I sure hope not.

Brent:
When I first came on this site, it was because I was getting very disgusted with the business practices of Microsoft.  
What this site seems to consist of is this...
A group of people have found a "GOD" There is a core group here that continuously worship their God and re-affirm one anothers beliefs.  It is so close to organized religion that it is astounding. Trash anyone elses beliefs... I suppose in a sense it is justified to do that because of the title of the site "fuckmicrosoft" Im not pleased with the way MS does business either but ranting childishly about crashing 5 times an hour and getting paranoid about "big brother watching" ect is silly..It may seem convenient to blame all the problems in the computer software industry on Bill and company, but seperating fact from paranoia is not something that seems to be on anyones agenda. Flaming people may be fun.. But you may just end up driving people away from Linux, because they wont anyone to think they are as immature as some on here (educated, obviosly) but immature.  If this is just a fun, name calling site, why bother getting technical??

Calum:
it's a good job you don't mind being called a fucktard, so called 'average user' because that's what you are.

There's no 'god' here, this site is anti Microsoft and pro choice.
If you are against choice, and that is the god you refer to then fuck off. i have no time for a moron who doesn't appreciate the value of choice.

If on the other hand you are not anti choice, and you are just telling us all how much better you are than everybody else, then fuck off. everybody is equal to begin with, and debatably everybody stays equal until they die.

Basically if you are going to be a fucktard about it, then fuck off.

Nothing personal, but in MY opinion a debate is a debate if it contains content, regardless of whether expletives are used. When it becomes vacuous malodourous pompous self righteous tripe, as many try to make it (under the guise of being 'mature' and 'sensible', it is no longer worth carrying on the discussion.

When i say 'fuck' it is not to intimidate people, as you say yourself, you don't care if i call you a fucktard so why does it even matter?

answer: it doesn't.
so stop making a big deal about it.

and take a look at the name of this site too, you might be shocked.

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