Author Topic: I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...  (Read 1900 times)

Jonothan

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« on: 20 April 2002, 20:00 »
Sure M$ make bug loaded programs, charge too much, try to destroy all their competition...

But we shouldn't stoop to their level; not all their programs are completely bad, and for beginners, M$ OS

Kintaro

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #1 on: 20 April 2002, 20:33 »
Anyway you could see www.mandrake.com
its more troll frienly then Windows.

The problem is that Linux is sold in enough shops

psyjax

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #2 on: 20 April 2002, 23:09 »
quote:
Originally posted by Jonothan:
Sure M$ make bug loaded programs, charge too much, try to destroy all their competition...

But we shouldn't stoop to their level; not all their programs are completely bad, and for beginners, M$ OS
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Jonothan

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #3 on: 21 April 2002, 14:38 »
I have used OSX and I do prefer it to winbloze, however the MAC box is a little too expensive for my liking. And despite what you say, it was windows that made computers main stream, even if their code was "borrowed" from MAC.

Also X11, I have and still do use Linux (Debian/Redhat/Xandros). And you know as well as I do, that there are many people out there who would not even be able to install Mandrake.

Unfortunatly Linux in its current form will never overtake M$, because companies simply don't dump cash into making software they can't make a profit on.

I just think some people on this site bash M$ more than they deserve, as a company they suck, but some of their software isn't all that bad.

P.S. Apple ripped themselves off, the only reason there not leading the market (in sales), is because they don't allow clones to be built.

http://www.satirewire.com/news/0111/microsoft_settlement.shtml
-not really relevant but very funny.

[ April 21, 2002: Message edited by: Jonothan ]


Calum

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #4 on: 21 April 2002, 16:43 »
quote:
Originally posted by Jonothan:
it was windows that made computers main stream, even if their code was "borrowed" from MAC.
matter of opinion. what would M$ have done if they hadn't had apple available to rip off ideas from?
 
quote:
Unfortunatly Linux in its current form will never overtake M$,
a VERY loaded statement. this sentence employs two tenses simultaneously. Linux will not be in its current form in the future. you say "never" as if linux is doomed to stay in its "current form" while M$ goes on to new heights of moneymaking and backstabbing. Remember the open source model is supposed to allow development to be faster than in-house development.
quote:
because companies simply don't dump cash into making software they can't make a profit on.
Again, we've seen that linux is now the choice for servers, reason 1, it's stable and secure, reason 2, it's cheap/free. Therefore it allows the people who run the server to make money easier. We'll see something of that ilk on the desktop within maybe five years i think, possibly less.
 
quote:

I just think some people on this site bash M$ more than they deserve,
seriously, that's not possible
quote:
as a company they suck,
and that's exactly why it's not possible  
quote:
but some of their software isn't all that bad.
so a company who can say SOME of their software ISN'T THAT BAD shouldn't be bashed for ruthlessly maneuvring themselves into a position of world monopoly?
Personally i reckon M$' worst transgressions are their politics. Sadly every aspect of their politics is reflected in the programming they do.
examples: proprietary html, proprietary javascript, messenger program that requires the crappy M$ browser to even install, operating system that cannot be bought without being packaged with said crappy browser. Where's the choice that we expect when we pay for such products? Not to mention the fact that they NEVER finish bugfixing a program, so they can always release a new bugfix to make money off of. I agree, for some people none of this is that bad, or even noticable very much, but those people might not care about politics as much as me, and in my opinion, M$ politics mean they deserve all the bashing they will ever get!
 
quote:

P.S. Apple ripped themselves off, the only reason there not leading the market (in sales), is because they don't allow clones to be built.
well, yes and no, the clones weren't up to the standard of Apple's actual machines, so we are told, so they were giving MacOS a bad name by being inferior. However, i cannot think of another foolproof plan at that stage in their history so who am i to disagree with you?
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Jonothan

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #5 on: 21 April 2002, 17:55 »
quote:
matter of opinion. what would M$ have done if they hadn't had apple available to rip off ideas from?


Do you think computers would be as popular as they are now if there was no M$?
I agree they did steal from Apple, I didn't say they made computers main stream alone, they just made the last step.


 
quote:
Linux will not be in its current form in the future. you say "never" as if linux is doomed to stay in its "current form"


Actually I meant the exact opposite, I think Linux could become much bigger, and will become mainstream to an extent. I just don

psyjax

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #6 on: 21 April 2002, 21:15 »
You did say M$ made computers main stream, but whatever...

Anyway, don't forget that the term personal computer was infact coined by Apple and that the first truely popular "main stream" computer was indeed the Apple IIe.

Also, don't forget wonderfull little machines like the Tandy (yes yes, they sucked, but I had one sitting right next to my green apple screen  :D  ), the Commodor 64, VIC-20, early IBM's etc. etc. etc.

All of these computers were incredibly popular and saturated the booming PC market of the early to mid 80's (the decade when PC's became commonplace), notice something? No M$ in sight.

Apple didn't lose their home market at all, but M$ (by ripping off Apple with Windows 3.0) dominated the buisness market. So when dad brought a computer home, he wanted it to be compatoble with the one at work and lo and behold windows based PC's spread like wildfire.

And M$ was lovin it sooo much they decided to set up a home there and Bill Gates made famus quotes like how he wants everyone in the world to be using a windows PC. (previous notable quotables was Bill telling his lead windows designer: I want it to be just like a Mac on a PC!)

Now, on to the Clones...

Apple was struggling during those times due to the idiotic POS management that ousted Jobs (who in my oppinion would have kept the company on top had that backstabing Pepsi asshole not gotten so greedy) so when the stockholders came crawling on their hands and knees back to Jobs (the guy who actually loves the company and the computer he and Woz built from scratch (Bill is just in it for the $$$)) Jobs assesed the sittuation and axed the clones cuz they were leaching away money from Apples largest money makeing commodity, Hardware.

Axing the clones might seem like a bad idea, but it's why Apple is still here. A large part of Apple's revenue comes from hardware, and the software/hardware integration that they get to controll. You do realize that even though they may not be number one, Apple is among the top 25 most successfull technology companies. They are one of the most succesfull buisnesses in America and have a few billion tucked away in the bank, most of M$'s revenue isn't even hard cash. All of this is due to the fact that they controll both the hardware and software.

But rummers are circulating, and it's belived that OS X on x86, and perhapse even a comback of the clones may not be to far off in the future.

None the less, I can't think of a single thing M$ has done to make the computer industry better or stronger. What, pray tell, has their generosity twords the industry produced? Have they ever actualy come up with anything "inovative"?
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Calum

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #7 on: 22 April 2002, 14:06 »
quote:
Originally posted by Jonothan:
Do you think computers would be as popular as they are now if there was no M$?
yes, i actually do!
   
quote:
I agree they did steal from Apple, I didn't say they made computers main stream alone, they just made the last step.

okay, that's what i said too      
   
quote:
Actually I meant the exact opposite, I think Linux could become much bigger, and will become mainstream to an extent. I just don
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Kintaro

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #8 on: 22 April 2002, 15:14 »
quote:


Also X11, I have and still do use Linux (Debian/Redhat/Xandros). And you know as well as I do, that there are many people out there who would not even be able to install Mandrake.

Unfortunatly Linux in its current form will never overtake M$, because companies simply don't dump cash into making software they can't make a profit on.
[ April 21, 2002: Message edited by: Jonothan ][/QB]

Companys sell computers with XP and Office and Works and all other crap....
And i dont think many people would be able to install XP.
If they did sell computer with linux, people would buy them when they noticed the -$800 on the price tag. Im not against apple, but i think if MS DIE
Apple or Sun will be huge Monopolys.

gnomez

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #9 on: 22 April 2002, 22:34 »
quote:
If they did sell computer with linux, people would buy them when they noticed the -$800 on the price tag.


Is this a typo, or are you referring to something really expensive like Win 2000 advanced server?  The OEM version of Windows XP costs less than $90.

Master of Reality

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #10 on: 23 April 2002, 00:14 »
quote:
Originally posted by Garden GNOME:


Is this a typo, or are you referring to something really expensive like Win 2000 advanced server?  The OEM version of Windows XP costs less than $90.


i have never seen windows cost that little!
(although i have never actually looked at the price of windows, i have never actually looked at the prices of any OS, except linux and its free!)
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gnomez

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #11 on: 23 April 2002, 02:06 »
quote:
i have never seen windows cost that little!
(although i have never actually looked at the price of windows, i have never actually looked at the prices of any OS, except linux and its free!)  


I should know; I bought the full version of Windows XP from googlegear.com for 88 bucks.  The OEM version of Windows costs less than half of what the retail costs, but you don't get a box or a manual and no tech support.  And, you have to purchase it with a hardware item.

Zombie9920

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #12 on: 23 April 2002, 02:12 »
quote:
Originally posted by Garden GNOME:


I should know; I bought the full version of Windows XP from googlegear.com for 88 bucks.  The OEM version of Windows costs less than half of what the retail costs, but you don't get a box or a manual and no tech support.  And, you have to purchase it with a hardware item.




(EDITED OUT FOR SECURITY REASONS)

[ May 01, 2002: Message edited by: Zombie9920 ]


gnomez

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #13 on: 23 April 2002, 03:53 »
quote:
Or just download XP Professional Corporate Edition for free and be rid of the activation BS. ;P


That isn't an option if you have a 24k connection like I do    

Although I did download the entire Mandrake Linux distribution.. took me about 2 months   ;)

Master of Reality

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I think people don't give M$ a fair enough go...
« Reply #14 on: 23 April 2002, 04:01 »
quote:
Originally posted by Garden GNOME:


That isn't an option if you have a 24k connection like I do      

Although I did download the entire Mandrake Linux distribution.. took me about 2 months    ;)  


i timed how long it took me to dl red hat using windows, 1MB/5 seconds

i think using wget in red hat (dling KDE) i got 900kb/s max (well actually 6.9 Mb/s but that was a file pulled straight off my proxy)
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