Munich Reconsiders Linux Migration

[Zombie9920]

The City of Munich has put its planned migration to Linux of 14,000 desktop PCs on hold due to concerns over software patents, the city's CIO said on Tuesday night. The call for bids in the LiMux Project, as it is known in Germany, was due to begin last week. But on Friday, Green Party Alderman Jens Muehlhaus called for the city to examine the impact patents might have on the decision, in light of software patents legislation currently under consideration in the European Union.

Muehlhaus said a cursory examination of Munich's proposed client software had turned up conflicts with more than 50 European software patents. The fear is that a company holding one or more of these patents could issue a "cease and desist" order to the Munich government, effectively shutting down the city's computer systems or forcing the payment of licensing fees. In response, the city decided to cancel the planned call for bids until the patent issue has been investigated, according to a statement from Munich CIO Wihelm Hoegner issued to the LiMux Project mailing list late on Tuesday.

Entire article @ eWeek

[hm_murdock]

governments should be exempt from such fag ups

[Refalm]

I hope this makes the German government realise that software patents are a really bad idea. The German government is now pro software patents.

[solarismka]

quote:Originally posted by Viper:
The City of Munich has put its planned migration to Linux of 14,000 desktop PCs on hold due to concerns over software patents, the city's CIO said on Tuesday night. The call for bids in the LiMux Project, as it is known in Germany, was due to begin last week. But on Friday, Green Party Alderman Jens Muehlhaus called for the city to examine the impact patents might have on the decision, in light of software patents legislation currently under consideration in the European Union.

Muehlhaus said a cursory examination of Munich's proposed client software had turned up conflicts with more than 50 European software patents. The fear is that a company holding one or more of these patents could issue a "cease and desist" order to the Munich government, effectively shutting down the city's computer systems or forcing the payment of licensing fees. In response, the city decided to cancel the planned call for bids until the patent issue has been investigated, according to a statement from Munich CIO Wihelm Hoegner issued to the LiMux Project mailing list late on Tuesday.

Entire article @ eWeek

That may be true. However its better than paying very high licensing fees, support costs and or getting hit with the the latest trojan, spyware and virus attack!

[Orethrius]

quote:Originally posted by kn0wn:


That may be true. However its better than paying very high licensing fees, support costs and or getting hit with the the latest trojan, spyware and virus attack!

Let's not forget the contracts of exclusivity for which Microsoft is most infamous.  In this situation, it's really "damned if you do, damned if you don't."  I say go with Linux.  Despite the overabundance of cliches in this post already, I'll venture one more: "better the devil you know than the devil you don't," and God only knows what M$ will do next.

[WMD]

Viper, I must ask.  Is it just a coincedence that

1.  You don't like Linux and
2.  You post many of the Linux "bad news" articles?

 

[Zombie9920]

Well, I don't exactly hate Linux. I have Suse 9.1 on my comp as we speak. I can't say I really like Linux much either. Suse is a nice distro but it like every other distro I've ever tried has it's shortcomings that are things that I take for granted with Windows and even MacOS X(which happens to be Unix based).

So far no Linux distro I have thried has got along well with my Radeon(using the official ATI Linux drivers for Xfree) either so add that to another shortcoming on top of all of the other shortcomings that are quirks for me w/Linux.

Of course I post the bad news articles because usually somebody else has already posted the good news articles and my post will just get binned with a link to the topic of the 1st poster.  

[ August 07, 2004: Message edited by: Viper ]

[Aloone_Jonez]

quote:Originally posted by Viper:
Well, I don't exactly hate Linux. I have Suse 9.1 on my comp as we speak.

Good for you.

 

quote:Originally posted by Viper:
I can't say I really like Linux much either.

I neither like nor dislike Windows | Linux, I just use the one that supports all my hardware and thus is the best to get my work done.

 

quote:Originally posted by Viper:

Suse is a nice distro but it like every other distro I've ever tried has it's shortcomings that are things that I take for granted with Windows and even MacOS X(which happens to be Unix based).

I haven't tried Suse before.

Linux in general does have it's shortcomings, despite what some people on this website will tell you.

 

quote:Originally posted by Viper:

So far no Linux distro I have tried has got along well with my Radeon(using the official ATI Linux drivers for Xfree) either so add that to another shortcoming on top of all of the other shortcomings that are quirks for me w/Linux.

I have had the same problems.

 

quote:Originally posted by Viper:

Of course I post the bad news articles because usually somebody else has already posted the good news articles and my post will just get binned with a link to the topic of the 1st poster.      

We need to give the readers of this website a more balanced view of Linux/Windows/Mac OSX.

As you know, I too was disappointed with Linux.


This was my first experience with Linux:

"I'm fed-up with Windows it gives me problems, it blows."

"Use Linux, RedHats good for newbees."

"That's no magic quick fix, it gives me problems too, it sucks."


After switching to Vector, Linux gave me less problems than before, but I still have a long way to go, and I would say the same about Linux.

We already know about the problems with Windows. I feel that there are some people on this site who are now spreading Linux FUD. We've heard the all the good news now we need to hear about the bad news.

I feel that it's pointless on to ramble on about how marvellous Linux is and how bad Windows is. Some people fail to see that Windows is very slowly improving, and they are blind to the problems that Linux has. Some people are pig ignorant, they refuse to remove their rose tinted glasses and view Linux in the cold light of day.

Having said all of this, some people will say that they've never had any problems with Windows, they will refuse to believe anyone else who's experience is different to theirs, and some people also say the same about Linux.

This site has focussed more on Linux than other alternatives such as Mac OSX. Many people are happy with Windows, but disagree with MS's monopoly position. We need to focus more on alternatives to MS Windows software, such as openoffice and Mozilla FireFox.

Viper,
If your hardware fully supported by Linux would you use it more than Windows?

I would.

Apart from driver support what other problems do you have with Linux?

I don't have any other major problems.

Have you ever considered building a machine from nothing but fully Linux compatible hardware?

I might consider this one day.

Have you tried running your Windows software under Wine?

I haven't, but this might be another problem.

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by Aloone:
Viper,
If your hardware fully supported by Linux would you use it more than Windows?

Probably not because alot of the software I use and most of the games I play(other than UT2K4) are for Windows only. Also, I bought a DirectX 9 card to play games in DirectX 9. Radeons are not too good at OpenGL nor does OpenGL support all of the advanced graphics technologies that produce great eye candy that DirectX supports. The only OpenGL game that I have seen that I think looks good in a long time is Doom III but it is going ot be outdone graphically by Half-Life 2.

Even the ATI Multimedia Center 9+ uses DirectX 9 to provide the option of using ThruView(It relies on DirectDraw 9 runtimes and DirectX 9 hardware) with my videos, DVD's and TV Tuner playback. IT is really nice to be able to play your video in full screen and still be able to see and use your desktop normally as if there was no full screen video running. Linux+OpenGL can't do it, Windows and OpenGL can't do it, Windows+DirectX 8 can't do it, Windows and DirectX 9 with a DirectX 8(or lower) video card can't do it. Nope, you must have a DirectX 9 video card and Windows with DirectX 9 installed.

Little extras that = convenience+usability and niceness for Windows only like ThruView alone is enough to keep me using Windows mainly. Then when I add the compatability of my applications+games into the equation it carves it in stone that I'm going to use Windows mainly and only use Linux when I want to tinker around(If I screw up Linux ohh well, I don't care about it).

To be honest, Windows never gives me any problems. I've been running on this install of XP ever since I built this new comp. The install of XP on my old main desktop comp is still running flawlessly in the living room(my g/f always uses it..she does not touch this comp        ). The install of XP on the old comp is over a year and a half old. I even have a really old 1ghz PIII system down in the basement that still runs flawlessly to this day and it has had XP on it since the day XP went gold and hit the shelves.

Alot of times Win2k/XP problems are actually user stupidity problems, a hardware problem or a problem caused by 3rd party software. I think the reason I have no problems with XP is because I build good computers with all quality parts, I know what I'm doing with a comp and I certainly don't install crap apps on my comp. Every one of my comps can easily keep windows up and running for long periods of time if I cared about uptime(which I don't). So, if Windows works flawlessly for me, I have it looking great and it offers stuff that no other OS for the PC offers/can offer why would I want to do away with it?

Mac people feel the same way about OSX. It looks good, works great and has good software vendors who write thier stuff to work with it so why install Linux to replace it on thier Mac?

Linux is really a bastard child that tries to be what other OSes are but fails miserably at it. It's only advantage is it is legal to have for free. I have no problem paying for my software so the free isn't an advantage for me. Tools aren't free, car engines aren't free, accesories for cars aren't free, etc. so why should a tool that also happens to be an engine for my toolbox(the computer) full of accesories that work well with that engine be be free? I'll pay for the tool/engine anyday.

Really, who is going to spend months/years on a quality product only to give it out for free?

[ August 07, 2004: Message edited by: Viper ]

[ August 07, 2004: Message edited by: Viper ]

[WMD]

quote:So far no Linux distro I have thried has got along well with my Radeon(using the official ATI Linux drivers for Xfree)

ATI's drivers are yucky.  No Linux distro would work with them.  

[emh]

The title of this thread is misleading.  Munich is not reconsidering the Linux migration.  They're just putting it on hold while patent issues in Europe get worked out.

Just FYI.

[Orethrius]

Thank you, Captain Obvious!
*snicker*

[Siplus]

quote:Originally posted by Viper:

Really, who is going to spend months/years on a quality product only to give it out for free?

OSS developers, IBM, Novell, Mandrake, etc.

[WMD]

Slashdot, Aug. 11: Munich goes ahead with Linux after all.
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/11/1712204&tid=162&tid=106&tid=218