Serious question for WIN advocates

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com:
Oh, yes? Then what is this about - http://www.dotgnu.org
How come *NIX world is copying M$ now?

That's the beauty of open source.  It can do everything M$ can no matter how hard M$ tries to stop them from doing so by using closed protocols and APIs.  No matter how stupid or Nazi like something is that M$ comes up with you will find a project in the open source world that will build compatibility with that product.  

M$ has no interest in interoperability or compatibility.  Now, just because the capability will be there doesn't mean everyone will use it. There are many open source people unhappy with the Ximian dude for doing the mono project, and for talking about building it into Gnome. But for those that wish to use it, it will be available for them. And have you actually read the front page of http://www.dotgnu.org/ which give many more good reasons for not using M$ or trust them?

[ August 21, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]

[badkarma]

No, I don't need to buy it, however if I want to use most (all? didn't check them all) of the examples from the MSDN library (and I will need to learn it somehow should I ever want to (yeah, right ...)) I will see the following bit mentioned there:

 

quote:
Requirements

Microsoft Visual Studio.NET Professional or greater.

Now I get paid pretty good for a 21 year old, but like hell that I'm buying MS VS.NET for the not too shabby price of: $1,079 US (and that's the professional edition without full DB support and some other missing features).

Excuse me, but that just sounds like outright extortion to me.....

[www.unixsucks.com]

Where you read that requirement?
it's your third post when you are trying to talk about subject you have very little understanding about.
Here is quote from M$ site

Microsoft .NET Framework Software Development Kit  

The Microsoft

[voidmain]

It's sort of difficult to get since I have .microsoft.com blocked at my firewall. Nothing but viruses come from that domain.  

[badkarma]

I took the quote from a VB.NET example page for creating dynamic controls (from MSDN). A mundane programming example, why it requires VS.NET is beyond me.

you can find the page I am reffering to here

so yes ... you can download the .NET framework for free, however to fully learn it you will have to have VS.NET. Some of the examples work with the trial version, but most examples need the professional edition (or greater ... lol)

[badkarma]

oh and unixsucks ... I've made a lot of points besides the VB issue, yet you seem to avoid replying to them?

[www.unixsucks.com]

To all of you *NIX fans.
The more I talk to you the more I can see that you don't question your religion and you NEVER acknowledge anything even if I would prove your wrong.
Look at BadKarma. He made a point that you need to buy $1500 VS.NET to program VB.NET. I have answered him 2 times, even attached links and he still would not admit that he was wrong.
Look at VoidMain. I asked him about assigning permission to different groups to single file. First he got defensive that there is ACL, then we figured out that NFS does not support it and then he admitted that he use MS technologies for file sharing! He still has not answered how to assign permission to the file for locally logged on use only.
This will never end as you never admit anything even if you feel that you are wrong.
There were only single posting which did admit that Linux community bowed to NT after Mindcrafts tests. I respect him as at least he has his had clear of idolizing things as all of you do.
I had to spend 2 months of my time to prepare and certify for Sun Solaris Admin certification. The only reason why I did it is to learn other OS, so I can see for myself wether I can do things faster or better in *NIX compared to Windows. And I found NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING which *NIX does which can not be done in Windows. But at the same time tons of things can be done faster and easier in Windows then in UNIX, apart from some things which you can not do in UNIX at all.
How do you file share? NFS? How secure is that? I don't consider myself big expert in NIS but Solaris admin book told me that NIS database syncronisations performed in clear text. Is it true? NIS+ is not compatible with NIS while NT domain structure can be easily migrated and supported under Windows 2000 AD. Please explain me how your user friendly *NIX would be able to enable clients to print to newly installed printer. How much time would it take you to setup clients? How much time would it take you in Windows (send email with UNC path to print server and double click printer, that's it).
Whatever! Keep your minds closed! It's the best way to worship I understand that.

[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]

[badkarma]

I'm not a network expert so I can't really comment on that. The only point I made which you refuted was about VB.NET requiring VS.NET and I already admitted that yes, you don't need VS.NET to compile VB.NET apps however most MSDN code example require VS.NET. I didn't pull that link from the MSDN knowledge base out of my ass....

All my other points of advantages a developer using linux vs a developer using windows still stand ....

[flap]

I have 3000 .html files on my webserver. I want to rename them all to .php and change all the links in the pages accordingly. I type one line into a UNIX command prompt to do this. How do I do it in Windows?

[creedon]

quote:Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com:
To all of you *NIX fans.
The more I talk to you the more I can see that you don't question your religion and you NEVER acknowledge anything even if I would prove your wrong.
Look at BadKarma. He made a point that you need to buy $1500 VS.NET to program VB.NET. I have answered him 2 times, even attached links and he still would not admit that he was wrong.
Look at VoidMain. I asked him about assigning permission to different groups to single file. First he got defensive that there is ACL, then we figured out that NFS does not support it and then he admitted that he use MS technologies for file sharing! He still has not answered how to assign permission to the file for locally logged on use only.
This will never end as you never admit anything even if you feel that you are wrong.
There were only single posting which did admit that Linux community bowed to NT after Mindcrafts tests. I respect him as at least he has his had clear of idolizing things as all of you do.
I had to spend 2 months of my time to prepare and certify for Sun Solaris Admin certification. The only reason why I did it is to learn other OS, so I can see for myself wether I can do things faster or better in *NIX compared to Windows. And I found NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING which *NIX does which can not be done in Windows. But at the same time tons of things can be done faster and easier in Windows then in UNIX, apart from some things which you can not do in UNIX at all.
How do you file share? NFS? How secure is that? I don't consider myself big expert in NIS but Solaris admin book told me that NIS database syncronisations performed in clear text. Is it true? NIS+ is not compatible with NIS while NT domain structure can be easily migrated and supported under Windows 2000 AD. Please explain me how your user friendly *NIX would be able to enable clients to print to newly installed printer. How much time would it take you to setup clients? How much time would it take you in Windows (send email with UNC path to print server and double click printer, that's it).
Whatever! Keep your minds closed! It's the best way to worship I understand that.

[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: www.unixsucks.com ]

You weren't reading very well when you responded to this thread.  My objection to the use of Microsoft products is MORAL; I'm not arguing which system is technically better, my objection is the business practices of the corporation that produces your O.S. of choice- the point I'm trying to make is, Why do MS advocates keep trying to change the opinions of Linux/UNIX users; a significant part of the community is there becaue of their dislike of the economic policies, and the underhanded tactics tha Microsoft has en=mployed over the past 20+ years.  Those practices are documented, MS can't deny thm; to me the methods that Microsoft uses in its conduct of business are reprehensible- THAT'S why I use an alternative Operating System; I find the Linux philosophy to be honest and open; until MS changes their fundimental business methods, I ant NOTHING to do with them.

[www.unixsucks.com]

Majority of people here as far as I understand claim superiority of *NIX over Microsoft from tecnical standpoint not economic factors. If we are talking about corporate UNIX (Solaris, AIX etc) then I would not even doubt that TCO would be lower with Windows solution. If we are talking about Linux then I would doubt where TCO would be lower actually bearing in mind that OS is free.
And to that idiot who said that he rename 5000 html files and update link as well in UNIX. I can do it in Windows 2000 as well. More over I also have the same choices as you - having Perl script to do that or run WSH script written in VBScript. Beleive me you can do all the fancy things in Windows as well, if you don't know how to do that then it does not necessarily mean that it can not be done. So consult somebody knowlegable about Windows first.

[flap]

I'm not talking about writing a script. I'm talking about being able to type one line into a command prompt. And no you can't do that in Windows because the provided command line utilities are inadequate and the shell is deliberately crippled. Microsoft would love to kill the command prompt off altogether so point & click monkeys will have an even harder time migrating to a OS for grownups. And of course your Perl solution requires installing additional 3rd party software which is provided by - gasp - the free software/UNIX communtity.

[www.unixsucks.com]

Please, please, please if you don't know what you are talking about then just stop.
Yes, Windows OS does not provide me with rich shell script support but provide me with a tools to accomplish the same tasks. It's called Windows Scripting Host.
So please shut up and stop confusing people.
So you think command line is great is it. How great is it for managing ACLs on files? Very convenient compared to GUI where you can see and manage permissions with single clicks.
You don't have a case here, please don't even start.

[creedon]

quote:Originally posted by www.unixsucks.com:
Majority of people here as far as I understand claim superiority of *NIX over Microsoft from tecnical standpoint not economic factors. If we are talking about corporate UNIX (Solaris, AIX etc) then I would not even doubt that TCO would be lower with Windows solution. If we are talking about Linux then I would doubt where TCO would be lower actually bearing in mind that OS is free.
And to that idiot who said that he rename 5000 html files and update link as well in UNIX. I can do it in Windows 2000 as well. More over I also have the same choices as you - having Perl script to do that or run WSH script written in VBScript. Beleive me you can do all the fancy things in Windows as well, if you don't know how to do that then it does not necessarily mean that it can not be done. So consult somebody knowlegable about Windows first.

I'm sending and you're not getting it!  I DON'T give a shit about any of the technical aspects of this thread (That I started) stop changing the subject; explain to me why I should change to MS products on MY terms, or stop posting to this thread!!  If you haven't got an argument that is trenchant to this discussion, YOU DON'T BELONG HERE!!

[www.unixsucks.com]

What are YOUR terms?
If you are happy with *NIX then don't change. I guess if you have seen both worlds then you can make decision on your own and don't need me to help you make decision. You claimed that Linux is functionally superior to Windows and I claim that you are wrong.
What is exactly your problem again?

[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: http://www.unixsucks.com ]