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Author Topic: KDE vs. GNOME  (Read 2208 times)

insomnia

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KDE vs. GNOME
« Reply #15 on: 10 September 2003, 18:53 »
quote:
Originally posted by flap:
No, QT is now Free Software. Gnome being Free Software was the main reason why QT became Free Software.


So this "Flap" claims Qt is know entirely Free Software (after claiming it's also Open Source).

Funny, the peeps who build it DON'T!
They only claim it's later versions became Free Software and Open Source. You still need those LICENSED Qt libs for earlier KDE versions (still usefull for old computers).

From http://developer.kde.org/documentation/books/kde-2.0-development/ch19lev1sec3.html

19.3. The License Usage by Qt

The license used by Qt varies by version. The FreeQt license (used by Qt 1.45 and earlier) was not Open Source. The Q Public License (used by Qt 2.0 and later) is. KDE 1.1.2 and earlier is based on Qt 1.45, and KDE 2.0 is based on Qt 2.1.

...

The free version of Qt fell under the FreeQt license. This version was available only if the recipient's product was distributed under a free software license. It permitted the redistribution of Qt and access to the source code. However, it did not allow modifications of Qt to be redistributed. That final clause does not satisfy the requirements of the FSF definition and thus, it is not a free software license.

Open Source Definition:
http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition_plain.php

(Most Open Source licenses like GPL, QTL, ... don't always follow this.)

KDE IS NOT ENTIRELY 'OPEN SOURCE' AND 'FREE SOFTWARE'.
THIS REALLY WAS THE MAIN REASON TO BUILD GNOME.
(...and flap's silly insults can't change this)

[ September 10, 2003: Message edited by: insomnia ]

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flap

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KDE vs. GNOME
« Reply #16 on: 10 September 2003, 19:35 »
quote:
KDE IS NOT ENTIRELY 'OPEN SOURCE' AND 'FREE SOFTWARE'.


Yes, it is. Look, I know you're having difficulty grasping this, but it's quite simple. As I said, QT wasn't always Free Software, but it is now. Again, as I said, it became Free Software because of pressure created by the development of GNOME.

The 'peeps' who developed it are saying what I am, that QT used to be non-free, but is Free now. Is this sinking in at all?
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insomnia

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« Reply #17 on: 10 September 2003, 20:02 »
quote:
Originally posted by flap:


Yes, it is. Look, I know you're having difficulty grasping this, but it's quite simple. As I said, QT wasn't always Free Software, but it is now. Again, as I said, it became Free Software because of pressure created by the development of GNOME.

The 'peeps' who developed it are saying what I am, that QT used to be non-free, but is Free now. Is this sinking in at all?


...?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Qt 1.45 (and earlier) are STILL under 'The FreeQT' License.
Since you seem to have a reading problem I'll repeat it.

"The free version of Qt fell under the FreeQt license. This version was available only if the recipient's product was distributed under a free software license. It permitted the redistribution of Qt and access to the source code. However, it did not allow modifications of Qt to be redistributed. That final clause does not satisfy the requirements of the FSF definition and thus, it is not a free software license."
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flap

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« Reply #18 on: 10 September 2003, 20:38 »
Yes, the EARLIER versions of QT. The CURRENT version of QT in use today is Free Software. You were originally suggesting that KDE is different from GNOME because KDE isn't Free Software/Open Source, when it actually is both Free Software and Open Source. The fact that previous versions of KDE/QT weren't FS doesn't negate the fact that it is Free now.
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insomnia

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« Reply #19 on: 10 September 2003, 21:01 »
quote:
Originally posted by flap:
Yes, the EARLIER versions of QT. The CURRENT version of QT in use today is Free Software. You were originally suggesting that KDE is different from GNOME because KDE isn't Free Software/Open Source, when it actually is both Free Software and Open Source. The fact that previous versions of KDE/QT weren't FS doesn't negate the fact that it is Free now.

 
Wrong.

Only one month ago, I still needed an early version to build a desk based on KDE 1.x.
I don't think Trolltech would ever sue anyone for using it without their permission, but legally they have the right to do this.

Qt is only 'free' starting from 2.2
see: http://www.trolltech.com/developer/faqs/free.html#q43
Gnome is build before this.
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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
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Injustice is happening now; suffering is happening now. We have choices to make now. To insist on absolute certainty before starting to apply ethics to life decisions is a way of choosing to be amoral.
R. Stallman

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flap

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« Reply #20 on: 10 September 2003, 21:49 »
What is wrong in my post? How can I just be repeating the same thing over and over again and not have you understand? Yes, the EARLIER versions of QT, e.g. the version used in KDE 1.x is non-free.

Yes, I accept that QT pre-2.2 was, and still is, non-free. The current version of QT i.e. 3.x, however, IS free. So the current version of KDE is as Free as GNOME.
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insomnia

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« Reply #21 on: 10 September 2003, 22:34 »
I only answord this question.

 
quote:
Originally posted by erosnemesis:
I was wondering what is the big deal with the 2 differenct type of sessions you can have (KDE & GNOME). I use KDE more because i can use my desktop more efficiently but i want to know what the major differences are.
Thanks


You disagreed.
The later(free) KDE versions are irrelevant.
Gnome is build before them.

PS: I think I prooved my point. (...and yes, I know I'm annoyingly stubbish)   ;)
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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
    Voltaire

Injustice is happening now; suffering is happening now. We have choices to make now. To insist on absolute certainty before starting to apply ethics to life decisions is a way of choosing to be amoral.
R. Stallman

http://www.pvda.be/

Faust

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« Reply #22 on: 11 September 2003, 00:03 »
quote:
And, no, Open Source is *not* always Free as in Freedom.

*YES IT IS


No it's not.  For those who pay lots of money Microsofts "shared source" is most certainly open but it isn't free.

 
quote:
There are many Open Source software projects that are not free.

*EXACTLTY MY POINT


Er you just contradicted yourself...

 
quote:
Free Software on the other hand *is* always 'Open Source'.

*WRONG. SHAREWARE IS FREE BUT ISN'T OPEN SOURCE.


FFS FREE AS IN FREEDOM

 
quote:
I don't think you understand the difference between Free Software and Open Source. Read the link in

*I DON'T REALLY CARE WHAT YOU THINK. (I never do, so don't take this as an insult.)


If you read the link you would understand.

 
quote:
...cause I believe in both "Open Source" and "Free Software Movement".


The open source movement is beneficial in that they help the movement towards freedom, but Free is better than Open.

 
quote:
PS:KDE is a very good Open Source environment but ISN'T Open Source itself. Please DO check the Licence off ALL the KDE parts.


KDE was always open source.  The libraries it depended upon were open source.  But they WERENT FREE.

 
quote:

They only claim it's later versions became Free Software and Open Source. You still need those LICENSED Qt libs for earlier KDE versions (still usefull for old computers).


Yes QT was open ("access to the source code") but NOT Free.

 
quote:
KDE IS NOT ENTIRELY 'OPEN SOURCE' AND 'FREE SOFTWARE'.
THIS REALLY WAS THE MAIN REASON TO BUILD GNOME.
(...and flap's silly insults can't change this)


KDE is and always was entirely open source.  It is now ALSO entirely Free.  BTW your misinformed opinion cant change this.   ;)  

 
quote:
Only one month ago, I still needed an early version to build a desk based on KDE 1.x.
I don't think Trolltech would ever sue anyone for using it without their permission, but legally they have the right to do this.


Yes KDE *NOW* ie current versions is free.  The KDE used *previously* was not but was open source and depended upon open source parts.  You have read a lot on QT but you havent read much on what Freedom is.

 
quote:

I don't think Trolltech would ever sue anyone for using it without their permission, but legally they have the right to do this.

No they cant.  The license it was under meant it was available for personal use for no money with source just not Free.  YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IS MEANT BY FREE HERE.  Read the link in Flaps sig.

 
quote:
You disagreed.
The later(free) KDE versions are irrelevant.
Gnome is build before them.


They arent irrelevant.  They are the current version so CURRENTLY Kde is free.  Mozilla was closed at one stage, then it went to open, now it is free.  Please try and learn the distinction.

 
quote:
PS: I think I prooved my point. (...and yes, I know I'm annoyingly stubbish)


No you did not, and the word is "childish" not "stubborn."

[ September 10, 2003: Message edited by: Faust ]

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Siplus

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KDE vs. GNOME
« Reply #23 on: 11 September 2003, 00:39 »
hmm...despite the current argument going on (i have nothing to contribute)...

i have been using Gnome in Redhat 8 and 9 for a while now, and i'm happy with it. i have installed KDE, but never used it, so i can't help you there.

and still i don't know if you should listen to me because i am using a modified WM from redhat...

this has been a pointless post  :(
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insomnia

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« Reply #24 on: 11 September 2003, 01:11 »
quote:
Originally posted by Faust:

No you did not, and the word is "childish" not "stubborn."
[ September 10, 2003: Message edited by: Faust ]


Your know fun, I don't think I've ever seen so many mistakes in one post. (a joke?)

   :eek:      :eek:      :eek:  
If not, do u're self a favour and read this:
http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition_plain.php

[ September 10, 2003: Message edited by: insomnia ]

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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
    Voltaire

Injustice is happening now; suffering is happening now. We have choices to make now. To insist on absolute certainty before starting to apply ethics to life decisions is a way of choosing to be amoral.
R. Stallman

http://www.pvda.be/

slvadcjelli42

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« Reply #25 on: 12 September 2003, 04:33 »
1) In terms of the "current argument," try using italics, as opposed to caps, when trying to add emphasis. It's easier on the eyes, and just seems more polite for some reason  ;)  

2) I like KDE, but then again I use the Redhat-bluecurve-modified thing, so my view is also skewed.
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TheQuirk

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« Reply #26 on: 12 September 2003, 06:22 »
quote:
Originally posted by insomnia:


Your know fun, I don't think I've ever seen so many mistakes in one post. (a joke?)

    :eek:        :eek:        :eek:  
If not, do u're self a favour and read this:
http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition_plain.php

[ September 10, 2003: Message edited by: insomnia ]


Maybe you should read it yourself. KDE fits under all of those things.
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insomnia

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« Reply #27 on: 12 September 2003, 06:25 »
quote:
Originally posted by TheQuirk:
Maybe you should read it yourself. KDE fits under all of those things.


No.
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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
    Voltaire

Injustice is happening now; suffering is happening now. We have choices to make now. To insist on absolute certainty before starting to apply ethics to life decisions is a way of choosing to be amoral.
R. Stallman

http://www.pvda.be/

TheQuirk

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« Reply #28 on: 12 September 2003, 07:13 »
quote:
Originally posted by insomnia:


No.


No, huh? Good thing you weren't really broad, and gave details, right?
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insomnia

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« Reply #29 on: 12 September 2003, 07:31 »
quote:
Originally posted by TheQuirk:
No, huh? Good thing you weren't really broad, and gave details, right?

I have dog named "Basje".          
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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
    Voltaire

Injustice is happening now; suffering is happening now. We have choices to make now. To insist on absolute certainty before starting to apply ethics to life decisions is a way of choosing to be amoral.
R. Stallman

http://www.pvda.be/

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