The downsides of Linux

[lazygamer]

quote:Linux is definitely not where Windows is on the desktop front, and it is doubtful it will ever catch up

Well that's ok, there's a diffrence between quality desktop and mass market desktop.

 

quote:well, i expect to get bombed for this one, but i i agree. not with install/uninstall necessarily, rather i'm wondering WHY IN THE HELL, in the 21st century, we even need to deal with a command line in day to day operations? this is something i have a hard time grasping about linux. 2 mouse clicks is faster than dealing with a keyboard and command line, so what's the point? yes, i WANT the command line functionality for whenever and whatever i want to use it for, but why the hell does linux seem to depend on it so much for trivial operations that could be handled far faster with a GUI? that's the whole point of a GUI, is it not? to paint a pretty interface and make things faster. why waste time at a command line? my time is valuable to me.

Hey that's cool, once again were helping to reveal the hidden downsides of Linux. Now what distro are you using? Whether your using a suposedly user friendly one is important. What about these things like KDE and GNOME? Perhaps your just not using a GUI like these?

I'll admit, I don't have a leg to stand on as I haven't touched Linux yet.

[LorKorub]

It took me all but three seconds to install my NVidia drivers.  And I didn't have to reboot, either. Linux us not like Shitblow$ where after you install an HTML editor, you have to reboot three times.

And paying for a crappy porduct?  I paid $80 US for SuSE and I got thousands of free products. If I payed (whatever Windows costs...I never bought one), how many software packages would I get.  And on top of that, I get free support for six months.  How long does M$ give free support?

Anyway, back on topic, I like the fact that you have to mess around, and actually do some manual configuring to get Linux up to its full potential. It gives a valuable insight to how things work, and let's you juggle with the building blocks, so to speak.  It is customizable, and it is like having a book that you write your own chapters and endings to.  The flexibility, and freedom...that's what I am talking about.

The downside to it has to be its initial difficulty.  For the guy that plays video games, uses the net for whatever, and writes e-mail, Linux is more of a chore than it is freedom.  If one distro came up with a built in manual, or a decent tutorial, it would probably make all of the difference in the world.  The main problem (well not problem) is that Linux/UNIX is written by programmers, for programmers.  The average dude cannot understand the terminology used, the phrasing, and the procedures described.  Microsoft is not much better in their attempts, but regarding the three tasks I listed, it can handle those with relative ease.  Most people are content with that, hence the oligopoly with Wintel.

[lazygamer]

quote:The downside to it has to be its initial difficulty.  For the guy that plays video games, uses the net for whatever, and writes e-mail, Linux is more of a chore than it is freedom.  If one distro came up with a built in manual, or a decent tutorial, it would probably make all of the difference in the world.  The main problem (well not problem) is that Linux/UNIX is written by programmers, for programmers.  The average dude cannot understand the terminology used, the phrasing, and the procedures described.  Microsoft is not much better in their attempts, but regarding the three tasks I listed, it can handle those with relative ease.  Most people are content with that, hence the oligopoly with Wintel.

Well I ain't scared. However, it's sounding more and more like Linux+User friendly distros=Lol yeah right. If that's not true, then I'd hate to see the UNFRIENDLY DISTROS!  

Not to worry, I'll bring almost every stupid n00b question I have RIGHTTTT into these forums to piss people off.   :

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by para:

well, i expect to get bombed for this one, but i i agree. not with install/uninstall necessarily, rather i'm wondering WHY IN THE HELL, in the 21st century, we even need to deal with a command line in day to day operations? this is something i have a hard time grasping about linux. 2 mouse clicks is faster than dealing with a keyboard and command line, so what's the point? yes, i WANT the command line functionality for whenever and whatever i want to use it for, but why the hell does linux seem to depend on it so much for trivial operations that could be handled far faster with a GUI? that's the whole point of a GUI, is it not? to paint a pretty interface and make things faster. why waste time at a command line? my time is valuable to me.

Ahhh grasshopper, you have much to learn.  If your time is valuable to you then you will forget about the GUI and learn the command line, then automate. The purpose of the GUI is not for speed but to make it easier for a n00b and it makes sense for picture oriented or WYSIWYG type of work.  If your time is valuable then you will learn how to automate and that is what Linux and UNIX are *extremely* good at and Windows is *extremely* bad at.  Windows users believe that they can get things done much faster by pointing and clicking their way through daily tasks while Linux users throw those tasks into a script and trigger them via cron or any number of other ways, then they go play golf.

I suggest if the GUI is your crutch then stick with Windows, or contribute by learning to create your own GUI apps for the tasks that you want a GUI for and let other n00bs benefit. If you don't want to learn C/C++ you can go for an easier scripting language. Python is used extensively to write graphical system tools and it is a fairly easy scripting language.  Or you can go for the older ways of TCL/TK.

[ July 02, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]

[para_fms]

quote:Originally posted by lazygamer:


Hey that's cool, once again were helping to reveal the hidden downsides of Linux. Now what distro are you using? Whether your using a suposedly user friendly one is important. What about these things like KDE and GNOME? Perhaps your just not using a GUI like these?

right now, none. i'm in the process of d/ling suse as i speak. i've tried mandrake and redhat in the past, but was forced to abandon both fairly quickly due to lack of hardware support. my hardware has changed and i'm getting more and more irritated with MS, thus the rejuvinated interest. and yes, i'm familier with both KDE and GNOME. if i recall, i preffered KDE of the 2.

[para_fms]

quote:Originally posted by VoidMain:


Ahhh grasshopper, you have much to learn.  If your time is valuable to you then you will forget about the GUI and learn the command line, then automate.

well, i'm not doing anything commercial. my primary daily activities include things like email corraspondance, lot's of internet activity, graphics editing, administrating a counter-strike server, writing scripts and doing sprites and various other half-life related stuff, FTP transfers and web site work. i don't think i'd ever have to leave the GUI for the vast majority of work i do. what i was refering to, reguarding the command line, has more to do with set-up and configuration of the OS itself. i understand i will have to learn, at the very least, some of the basic syntax and techniques.

[voidmain]

What setup tasks are you referring to that does not have a GUI?  I know of several GUI apps for every system setup task (although I prefer command line). Have you looked at Webmin?  http://www.webmin.com/

Webmin can do just about everything as far as system configuration and management.  I won't mention "linuxconf" because I think it sucks.  But I think webmin should be included in all GNU/Linux distros, some do include it.  It can configure your drives, configure your network connections, databases, Apache, BIND, install Perl modules, etc etc.. All graphically and just as easily done remotely as locally since it is web based.  I still personally prefer command line but my partners love webmin.  They are Windows types so they feel more comfortable with webmin and find it very easy to use.

[lazygamer]

So when I get Linux on my comp, should I DEFINITLY put Webmin on?

[choasforages]

play with it first

[TheQuirk]

Wasn't Caldera the company that developed Webmin? I remember playing with it in OpenLinux 2.4

[TheQuirk]

Oh, and the uninstall issue... You can just use RPMs, although I don't recommend it, and you could uninstall the programs just by typing in "rpm -e package." And if you want GUI, I know for the fact Mandrake has a program called "package manager" that can uninstall any RPM you have. I could include a screen shot if you want..

[WaWAR_FA]

windows xp full version 300$ support 9.95 per minute via phone for tech support.

mandrake 8.1 24.95$ at walmart 60day free support.

the only thing i dont like about linux is not having an install/uninstall.

other than that linux kicks Microsofts ass.

[lazygamer]

UNINSTALL?! Just format the partition/drive with Linux on it! Or just delete the directories.

[Master of Reality]

I have yet to find more than one thing that KDE cant do to configure. The only thing is changing the screen resolution/colour depth, but why should you ever need to change that unless you majorly upgrading you monitor?
Kpackage can handle all the RPMS you want to install. Webmin is great, linuxconf isnt bad.

[badkarma]

installing NVIDIA drivers under linux is waaay faster then under windows (no reboot, and the X server gets cached completely in memory (for me at least, 1gb memory) so restarting it takes like 10 seconds)

RPM's can be installed with kpackage (but who needs that when the SuSE cd's contain every package you will ever need?)

with SuSE you can change your desktop resolution without a command prompt

the major downside of linux is lack of native commercial quality games (though I predict this will change in the coming years, companies are starting to release linux binaries for their games (yay BioWare!))