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Author Topic: Ext 3 vs NTFS  (Read 1406 times)

lazygamer

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« on: 8 May 2003, 02:19 »
So Ext 3 vs NTFS, what are the pros and cons/how do they compare?

Unrelated to this, I had a question about Linux. The GUI in Linux is only a graphical shell and not the OS right? So any program that could be ran from the GUI could be ran from the command prompt, correct?

Also, is the Linux command line basically a far more stable, faster, and more complex/powerful modern day DOS?(I know DOS ripped off Unix, but that's not the point here)
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flap

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #1 on: 8 May 2003, 02:35 »
quote:
The GUI in Linux is only a graphical shell and not the OS right? So any program that could be ran from the GUI could be ran from the command prompt, correct?


Well X is just another layer of software running on top of the OS, yes. You can use a Unix based system without X running, or even installed. But no, you can't run X applications without X. How could Mozilla/Gimp/xterm etc. run in text mode?

 
quote:
Also, is the Linux command line basically a far more stable, faster, and more complex/powerful modern day DOS?(I know DOS ripped off Unix, but that's not the point here)


Well the command line is just a shell/interface to the OS as well; it's still not the operating system. DOS is an operating system; not just a command shell. As is the Unix command shell. I think you're comparing Unix to DOS because (without X running) they "look the same", which doesn't really make sense.

But I suppose you could say that the Unix shell is a more functional, complex etc. version of the DOS shell. And further you could say that the Unix OS is a more complex etc. version of DOS.

[ May 07, 2003: Message edited by: flap ]

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Pantso

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #2 on: 8 May 2003, 02:54 »
What flap wrote is right. I would also like to add that despite some very superficial similarities between the DOS command line and the *NIX one, nothing's similar. The Unix command line is FAR more flaxible and powerful than the DOS one. For example the 'ls' command, which is similar to the 'dir' one in DOS has 48 options etc!

Now, about the filesystems, I'll have to do some googling to give you more detailed info.
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suselinux

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #3 on: 8 May 2003, 06:25 »
right now with most distros you can modify an ext3 safely but you cant change the size of a rieserfs without POSSIBLE damage.  

I think Rieserfs is supposed to be the NTFS of *nix/linux
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Master of Reality

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #4 on: 8 May 2003, 06:58 »
quote:
Originally posted by suselinux:
right now with most distros you can modify an ext3 safely but you cant change the size of a rieserfs without POSSIBLE damage.  

I think Rieserfs is supposed to be the NTFS of *nix/linux
erm.. no, NTFS and reiserFS are not any way related.

I'm not sure much of the differences between NTFS and Ext.3. Is NTFS journalling like Ext3? Does NTFS require defragmentation? Ext3 doesnt get fragmented nearly enought to require that.
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lazygamer

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #5 on: 8 May 2003, 08:08 »
quote:
Well X is just another layer of software running on top of the OS, yes. You can use a Unix based system without X running, or even installed. But no, you can't run X applications without X. How could Mozilla/Gimp/xterm etc. run in text mode?


Well what I meant was have it like DOS was. IE:You type in the name of the application you were going to run and then the application loads(graphics and all, no textmode). When your done, app closes and it's back to the command line(real command line, no command line in GUI window). Possible with Linux?
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rch

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #6 on: 8 May 2003, 21:15 »
quote:
So Ext 3 vs NTFS, what are the pros and cons/how do they compare?

NTFS is a journalling file system used from the days of windows NT.The latest version of NTFS offers features like encryptation,online compression,MFT(Master File Table) which is better than FAT as more than a copy of MFT are stored in the same partition.Its main disadvantage is defragmentation.Ext3 lacks some features of NTFS ,but you can use a encryptation with loopback(Linux is more secure than M$).It uses a architecture called i-node and is also a journalling file system like NTFS.Incidentally JFS
means the Filesystem which creates a journal so that fs errors are corrected faster,once you have a power outage if you boot into your system it will not take the 'extra' time to check your volume for errors.Ext3 requires no defragmentation tool.ReiserFs is a JFS with better performance particularly with small files(the performance is sometimes 50-60 % better).Other JFS are IBM JFS,SGI XFS and so on.
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suselinux

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #7 on: 8 May 2003, 11:49 »
quote:
Originally posted by The Master of Reality / Bob:
erm.. no, NTFS and reiserFS are not any way related.

I'm not sure much of the differences between NTFS and Ext.3. Is NTFS journalling like Ext3? Does NTFS require defragmentation? Ext3 doesnt get fragmented nearly enought to require that.


Sorry I was sleeping when I posted that.

I thought it said EXT3 vs Rieser

I only compared RIESER to NTFS, because they both stive to be a [SECURE] file system
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flap

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #8 on: 8 May 2003, 14:13 »
quote:
Originally posted by lazygamer:


Well what I meant was have it like DOS was. IE:You type in the name of the application you were going to run and then the application loads(graphics and all, no textmode). When your done, app closes and it's back to the command line(real command line, no command line in GUI window). Possible with Linux?


No. But DOS doesn't work like that anyway - you can't run windows programs from DOS in the way you describe, can you? And what would be the point? It would amount to starting the X server, running the program and then killing X. Why not just have X running if you want to run graphical applications?
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Pantso

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #9 on: 8 May 2003, 15:53 »
quote:
Originally posted by flap:


No. But DOS doesn't work like that anyway - you can't run windows programs from DOS in the way you describe, can you? And what would be the point? It would amount to starting the X server, running the program and then killing X. Why not just have X running if you want to run graphical applications?


I agree. To run any 'graphical' so to speak app from Linux you also need to have installed the X server. I don't see a point in working entirely from the command line and calling X-based apps from there. That would start and kill the X server but you still should have X installed.
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lazygamer

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #10 on: 9 May 2003, 07:41 »
quote:
No. But DOS doesn't work like that anyway - you can't run windows programs from DOS in the way you describe, can you? And what would be the point? It would amount to starting the X server, running the program and then killing X. Why not just have X running if you want to run graphical applications?


Lol, no I mean graphical DOS programs!  ;)

But I guess if a person wants an 0ld$k00l Linux experience, there is always a graphical X command line window. Actually, graphical(rather than text mode) command lines are better... you don't have to screw around with text mode refresh rates. I don't know if it's even possible to change a text mode refresh rate, but graphical ones can be changed quite good!
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flap

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #11 on: 9 May 2003, 21:57 »
graphical DOS programs? You mean games?
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Calum

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #12 on: 9 May 2003, 22:11 »
not all graphical DOS programs are games, partition magic 6 has a DOS only version with a GUI, and what about the arachne browser? it does not require windows to be running. i think the linux version does not require X to be running either, and as another non-X GUI linux tool, what about pkgtool and pkgtool2 which are package management tools (surprisingly enough) bundled with slackware and peanut linuces respectively.

this thread is quite irritating to me because nobody's really got to the meat of the matter as far as i can see.

NTFS is a closed standard filesystem. it is not reliably supported on any system other than later versions of winNT (to my knowledge) purely because of the designers' decision to make it that way. Latterday linux filesystems such as Ext3, ReiserFS and XFS (if i hear rightly) do journaling, and keep themselves clean, tidy, fast and free of errors and are also all open standards, meaning microsoft could implement windows support for them tomorrow if a) they wanted to truly advance computing and b) they really wanted to prove their closed source development model is in any way workable. but they don't so draw your own conclusions.
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flap

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #13 on: 9 May 2003, 23:31 »
Yes, you can run svga mode applications (apps that use svgalib or similar i.e. not X apps) in console mode.
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lazygamer

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Ext 3 vs NTFS
« Reply #14 on: 10 May 2003, 17:36 »
Ok about NTFS vs EXT3.

NTFS gets less fragmented than FAT32, but EXT3 is far ahead of it, correct?

NTFS has some extra features, but they are moot point.

NTFS is closed, EXT 3 is not.

What is left to compare? I'm curious about speed(different filesystems have different speeds right?) and clustering. Like a file system writes to a cluster, and will waste some space on the last cluster it writes to. This will add up over time. IIRC NTFS wastes less space than FAT 32, but what about NTFS vs EXT3 for space wasting?

I'm still foggy about what I mentioned above, so let me know if I got it right.  
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