NOT ENUF STUFF (DAMMIT)

[Sleeping Dog]

I want nothing more than using LINUX as my desktop "solution", but there just isn't enough stuff.  I mean, gee folks, I have to work in a world full of MAC geeks and PC Goobers that I need to share files with on a professional level.  "This ain't playin' around, this ain't no dress rehearsal, this is the big time." (Waylon Jennings, 1979)  There just is not enough software that is available to us startup wanna'bes that runs under Linux on the DESKTOP yet to make the OS viable and friendly.  Hey Developers, where the Hell are you?

OK folks....here is some real world stuff I deal with day to day, personally and professionally. (Internet aside).
I design machines and buildings with AutoCAD,  I do photos for my 80 year old Mommy with PhotoShop.  I FTP large files back and forth, and I am a freakin' musician who wants to take advantage of the latest in audio software.  I don't want to have to get another PHD in OS....I just want software that does what I want to do without paying Redmond or the cider people a premium.

Is there Hope?

Signed......Lost in the Ozone again.

Sleeping Dog

[Calum]

use a mac.

sorry, but the more customisable the OS, the more you'll need to know about it. I am not sure about the CAD stuff, but the audio stuff will need a lot of configuring (from what i see) to get it to work. Either that or it's a case of getting WineX and running win32 programs (third party non-m$ ones) using it.
As for photos and networking, all that stuff is already on yr machine, if you installed linux and a lot of programs. Did you try GIMP? it's as good as photoshop, totally free, and it's open source too.
Also, you'll notice that linux comes with literally hundreds of programs preinstalled. I think your claim of not enough stuff is a bit silly, considering you get about five programs with windows, all of which are useless, spyware or both.

Still, a lot of developers developers developers developers have still got their heads down the toilet when it comes to releasing for linux...

Also, sleeping dog, try not to post a topic more than once, hmm? i had to delete a useless topic of yours because it's only function was to tell people to read this topic. That wastes my time as well as other people's. If people want to read this, they will. Don't piss them off in the meantime, thanks.

[Sleeping Dog]

Sorry about the "SO WHERE'S MY FLYING CAR?" posting.  It was a joke....maybe took five seconds of precious time to read.  Good grief, lighten up a bit.  Have some fun. Levity can be good for the soul.

[Calum]

whatever. I have a perfectly good sense of humour, and there's no need for you to go insulting me just to inflate your own ego. I'm not trying to start a flame war but we have a forum to keep clean and if everybody started two topics when one would do, we'd be neck deep in shit.

There's a reason for moderators you know. Nothing personal, unless you make it personal.

[choasforages]

on the note of Calum, i was on your site and tried to download your two mp3s and it said i wasn't allowed???

[Calum]

yup, sorry, thanks for bringing it to my attention. The problem is that i am breaching their terms and conditions by linking to those mp3s, so i knew it would only be a matter of time... maybe i can get around it somehow. The best way would be to find somebody who could host my site for me...    my downloads page has been updated, so now there's no real point to my site even existing...

[Master of Reality]

Angelfire is stil allowing people to dl MP3s from The Abyss

[Calum]

sabbath! heavy metal rocks! (heh heh) (uh huh huh!)

well my site is back up as far as i can see, so go for it...

[Master of Reality]

are you allowed to host Vorbis files? Maybe you should convert all your songs to Ogg Vorbis.
.....what is the name of the ogg encoder in Linux (command-line)? I installed everything when I installed RH7.2 so I should have it somewhere.

[Master of Reality]

n/m... its oggenc (duh)

[Sleeping Dog]

I'm not out to flame, insult or berate anyone.  Never was my intention, nor will it ever be.  My lament is still the same.  NOT ENUF STUFF.  However, I have been doing some additional investigation on the subject of Linux analogue software.  The common element that I have found in following the threads left by some of the developers is that fast and cost efficient tools for doing things like porting Pro-E or AutoCad to the Linux platform are still in their infancy.  Much of the lack of software seems due to cost and time restrictions as well.  It would seem that there are pure code ways of duplicating the GUI's and functionality of a lot of professionally popular software, but the time required due to limited tools and the development costs thereto associated are still prohibitive.

There do seem to be some rays of hope, however.  Rumor has it that Pro-E is supposed to release a Linux version in late fall.  Regretably, just the 5 day intro class to Pro-E carries a 15 Thousand dollar price tag for base versions that already exist.  (That does not include the software.)

My lady is a Professional Graphic Designer.  She has several years of MAC specific graphics experience.  MAC's are not nearly as tempermental as Windows machines, but they are not without their own unique problems and issues, many of which are equally annoying.  Recently she looked at and priced the updates of her software to run on OS Ten.  In a nutshell, there is little additional functionality and a lot of additional cost.  There are also some major version file incompatabilities between applications.  (....and trust me, lately MAC support for Quark and Illustrator has left a lot to be desired.)

"Get a MAC" is not an answer to the issue that I initially addressed.  Those of us who have several thousands of dollars invested in hardware and software that we use on a daily basis to put bread on the table for our families, do not always have the financial ability to trash our present tools and throw money at something else on a whim.  

We look for stability, affordability and support.
Hopefully, these things will come of age sooner rather than later in a Linux format for us folks who make our livings using computers as tools.  Until then, I guess we are just stuck with the MAC's and Windows machines/software that are presently available.

Sleeping Dog

[Calum]

all of what you say is true however like most people, you say you want stability, affordability and support.

I put it to you that you do not get stability with windows. You do not get support with windows (at least not from Microsoft, who produce it) and arguably, you do not get affordability with windows either.

Linux already has windows beat on the fronts of affordability and stability, and windows, frankly, is not going to catch up on those two fronts. Support, can be bought for the GNU/Linux system, from any major linux vendor, however i think the support you mean, is purely porting and compiling applications from one platform to the other.
This, in my opinion, has been something the software developers have been incredibly lax on for years. As far as i can see, they wrote it, now take some time to port it, instead of bringing out a newer, totally indistinguishable from the last one, version for the same old platforms yet again.

I suspect it has more to do with marketing than actual time and effort in a lot of cases.

All people can do is use whatever alternatives there are, until somebody realises there's a market there to cash in on, and authorises the good stuff to be ported. If people do not use the alternatives, then no porting will ever get done, because there, obviously, will not be a market to direct it towards.

[Sleeping Dog]

One of the threads that I referred to is a discussion between Vladimir Malukh ([email protected]) and Serg Shikov ([email protected]) about this specific issue. http://www.cad.dp.ua/stats/spor-e.html
Although it is primarily CAD related, the main points of their discussion can be applied to the development of professional Linux based software in general.

Linux presently is like having a great stack of lumber waiting to be used.  However, without the right "hammer and fasteners", the house won't get built in a timely fashion.

Linux IS ready for the desktop, but the desktop is not quite ready yet for Linux.

[para_fms]

quote:Originally posted by Calum:
...This, in my opinion, has been something the software developers have been incredibly lax on for years...

yep, and that is what scares me...

i'm very new to all of this (linux) and am looking for a M$ alternitive. there is SO much research to do to find a viable alternitive it's pathetic. who supports the largest selection of popular PC hardware? what applications will replace, or work on linux? what functionality will i lose/gain? where is linux's position in the market and which direction is it heading and how fast?

i need answers to all those questions and many more as many other alternitive seekers also do before an intelligent choice can be made (btw, i'm not necessarily actually asking them here).

analizing the quoted statement above (no offence at all) provides very little comfort. i sort of see it as a general sum to many of my questions and i don't like the answer it provides, or my interpetition of the answer anyway. this is what i'm reading:

obviously the software developers are going to cater to whatever market provides a profitible return, right? if software developers have been "incredibly lax" on providing software, drivers, ports, etc., for linux "for years", that suggests to me 1) linux simply ain't too popular as a desktop platform, 2) it's probably not gaining in popularity very rapidly and 3) i'm not likely to find software with the functionality of much of the windowz counterparts, free or otherwise.

now, my take on this is not something that i necessarily believe is the case, rather it's my interpetation of the above quoted remark. please tell me i'm WRONG!

unlike Sleeping Dog, i'm far less restricted in my choices of OS's. i'm simply an end user on a stand-alone desktop that, currently, is not used for profit. still, i want graphics software with the full capability, or better, of Ulead PhotoImpact, text editing software with the full functionality, or better, of UltraEdit, WYSIWYG editing functionality of Front Page (M$ office in general), communication software such as Trillian and file sharing software such as WinMX.

now i know damn well that i may not be able to have my cake and eat it too, but just how close can i get given the current state of affairs?

i'm the type of person who will GLADLY depart from the mainstream and head off in my own direction, yet i fear i may be hampered if i choose linux as that direction. please pat me on my little head and tell me everything's gonna be ok   :rolleyes:

[voidmain]

The nice thing about it is you can try it out and see if you can resolve all of your issues, for free.  In fact, you can try it out *forever* and not feel guilty about it.  There are a couple of office suites that are good.  OpenOffice, http://www.openoffice.org is one of the best.  "Evolution" is nearly identical to Microsoft Outlook (not Outlook Express) but without the little virus problem. I believe there is a solution for all of your other concerns as well.