RedHat 8.0 Problem

[sAvAgE]

Hey Guys and Gals I have a little Problem Somewhere in my XF86Config in /etc/X11/XF86Config

What seems to be happening (And I noticed the same thing in Mandrake 9.0 as well (Perhaps a Bug in Both?) Unlikely but possible.

Resolutions are Fine @ 800x600, 1024x 768, 1152X 864, 1280 X 1024 these are Great. However the Resolutions @ 640 X 480 are not correct on the desktop or in a 3d environment.

I double checked the config of my video card and it is a Matrox G450 single video (However it wants to go by default to the G400) .. I checked for a video Driver by matrox and the Driver is not for this Linux Kernel

Is there a way I can specify a refresh rate for specifically for 640 X 480 and not adjust the rest of my display settings? am I on the right track or is there something I am Missing? or do I have to wait for the right drivers from Matrox that will support this kernel?

all suggestions are welcome.

Thanks in advance guys

[voidmain]

Do you actually *use* 640x480?  I can't imagine using it and actually get anything done. I have to suffer with 800x600 on my old laptop which is the lowest I think I could bear. On my desktop I usually run around 1280x1024. Are you using the drivers that came with the OS or did you download drivers from the vendor?

[Centurian]

That is one thing I don't like about X. Under Windows you can easily change your refresh rate, or resolution etc with just a few clicks as needed. (Believe me their are alot of reasons why it is needed.) Under X changing your refresh rate means you have to restart the X server, relogin etc. That is one major gripe I have with X. There should be graphical tools to change all settings and it should be able to be done without having to restart X.

Hell you can't change your windows manager or really in actions other than the resolution without restarting X. The effects don't happen until you restart X.    

I can't complain linux is a nice free OS but having those features would make it much better.

[ October 04, 2002: Message edited by: Centurian ]

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by Centurian:
That is one thing I don't like about X. Under Windows you can easily change your refresh rate, or resolution etc with just a few clicks as needed. (Believe me their are alot of reasons why it is needed.) Under X changing your refresh rate means you have to restart the X server, relogin etc. That is one major gripe I have with X. There should be graphical tools to change all settings and it should be able to be done without having to restart X.

Hell you can't change your windows manager or really in actions other than the resolution without restarting X. The effects don't happen until you restart X.      

I can't complain linux is a nice free OS but having those features would make it much better.

Then RedHat 8.0 is for you: "Start Here->System Settings->Display Settings":
http://osnews.daemon.be/img/1842/redhat3.jpg

One thing I like about X is it defaults to the highest refresh rate unlike Windows where a lot of times it defaults to something like 65hz (flicker mania).

Here's a review with lotsa screen shots (not great screenshots):

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1842

[Centurian]

Cool!

Does it auto update and restart X or is it still necessary to restart before the new settings take effect?

I could not get any of the pics to load but I read through the article. Based on it there are still some serious problems with X and nVidia in Redhat 8.0.

[sAvAgE]

Computer P /// 450 384 MB Ram All OpenGL Defaults to 640 x 480 if I run some stuff at 800 x 600 the Play is too slow In Quake3 the FPS is 25 - 35 fps also Tux racer is at 640 x 480 I mean I can live with it Just a MATTER of trying to get it fixed

IS there a way in xf86config that I can specify a certain refresh rate for a certain resolution?

and yes I have tried start here settings display and  all the other resolutions are fine except anything under 800 x 600

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by Centurian:
Cool!

Does it auto update and restart X or is it still necessary to restart before the new settings take effect?

I could not get any of the pics to load but I read through the article. Based on it there are still some serious problems with X and nVidia in Redhat 8.0.

Well, like has always been the case in XFree, once you have all the resolutions configured you only have to press CTRL+ALT+KPPLUS (KeyPad +) to cycle through your resolutions. No reboot or restart necessary, it happens instantly. Now changing color depth always took a restart of X for it to take effect.

I just tested that part and it will change your default color depth (256/16k/etc) but you still have to restart X before it will take effect. Changing color depth is not something one usually does anyway, usually it's just changing resolutions which like I said, still works by pressing CTRL+ATL+KPPLUS. I think the graphical display thing just changes your XF86Config which would require restarting X as it always has.

It's a nice graphical way to configure it though as you can select a driver, a monitor, tweak your rates etc in the advanced tab, something I haven't had to touch (in fact I haven't had to touch the graphical tool at all until you asked about it).

[Centurian]

Savage,

I don't know of any way. Sorry.

VoidMain,

Hmmm ok well thanks for the info. To bad we will still have to restart X to change the refresh rate. I have all the monitor resolution setup no problem I was hoping we could change the monitor refresh rate and the desktop without having to logout or restart X.

I am glad to see graphical tools though to handle this at least that is a good step in the right direction.  

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by Centurian:
Hmmm ok well thanks for the info. To bad we will still have to restart X to change the refresh rate. I have all the monitor resolution setup no problem I was hoping we could change the monitor refresh rate and the desktop without having to logout or restart X.

I'm confused by your use of the term "refresh rate". Once set you should never have to change it, and it's something that is set automatically when it detects your monitor. There are only two things that anyone might want to change after installation. That is the color depth (e.g. change from 8 bit color to 24 bit color), and the screen resolutions (e.g. change from 800x600 to 1024x768). The former (color depth) requires X to be restarted. The latter (resolution) does not need a restart of X.

When would anyone have a need to change their refresh rate? The highest possible refresh rate would always be preferred in my opinion (as long as your highest rate is higher than the frequency of flurescent lights if you are working in a room with such lighting). What has always pissed me off about Windows is the default refresh rate is always set at the lowest (60 or 65hz) which is exactly in the range that will get you massive flicker in a room with flurescent lights and blow out your retinas if you sit in front of such a monitor for any length of time.

The first thing I do when I walk into a room and see someone's monitor flickering is to increase the refresh rate for them. I have never had this problem in Linux. It always picks a very high refresh rate. That is as long as it detects your monitor and you don't have to set this manually, and if you did have to set it manually you should have set the refresh rate at the upper bounds of the monitor at that point.

In the automatic detection of your video card it will detect all the clock rates (refresh rate frequencies) that the video card is capable of. In the automatic detection of the monitor it will take the upper/lower bounds that monitor is capable of and match that up with the highest clock rate of the video card not to exceed the upper bounds of the monitor.

Or am I completely misunderstanding your issue?

[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]

[Centurian]

No actually you are right on the nose. That is the exact issue. When working with graphics (particularly in games) it is often necessary to change the monitor refresh rate, This is needed both for testing and for playing some games. I have found that some 3D linux games will not run unless I reset /etc/X11/XF86Config. This is a common thing with 3D graphics in general. Depending on what card you have with what monitor 3D can have problems running. For that reason it is necessary to change between default and optimal refresh rates.

Heheh you may be upsetting alot of people by changing their refresh rate.  

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by Centurian:
No actually you are right on the nose. That is the exact issue. When working with graphics (particularly in games) it is often necessary to change the monitor refresh rate, This is needed both for testing and for playing some games. I have found that some 3D linux games will not run unless I reset /etc/X11/XF86Config. This is a common thing with 3D graphics in general.

Hmmm, I have never had a game in Linux not play because of the refresh rate I had selected. In fact I can't remember a game in Windows not playing because of the refresh rate. I still fail to see how that has anything to do with games or 3d graphics. You sure you aren't referring to frame rates (FPS)? If so, that is a totally different issue which would be related to depth and resolution. I'm still confused.

 

quote:Heheh you may be upsetting alot of people by changing their refresh rate.      

I have had several people wonder why I messed with their settings. Not a one of them had bloody eyeballs when they thanked me the next day.

[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]

[Centurian]

No I am not refering to FPS (Frames per Second). An FPS of 34 or greater will offer a smooth gaming play. 34 may be a bit slow but it will be smooth.

I am referring to a combination of 2 things that cause this problem.

1. Hardware incompatibility. All monitors don't work perfectly with all video cards. For that reason 3D can be problematic.

2. Graphic rendering engines. Certain engines do a very poor job of compensating for the compatibility issues mentioned in 1 above. A perfect example of that is Diablo II's 3D rendering engine. It offers great 2D but its 3D can be very bad depending on what video card and monitor combination you happen to use.

I theory DirectX and OpenGL should compensate for this problem but it does not always do so.

If you check the doc's of many games they will suggest that if you have problems change your refresh rate to default. In most cases that does fix the problem too. However as you pointed out once you get out of the game you want to easily change it back because defaults do cause flicker during normal (non-3D) operations.

That is why I would like to see the option to quickly and easily change your refresh rate with in X and the active desktop and not be required to restart X or reload the desktop.
It would also be nice to be able to switch desktops without having to log out. IE I am runnning KDE but I want to do X in Gnome because I find it easier. Instead of logging out and relogging in under Gnome it would be very nice to be able to click a button and instantly switch to Gnome. Then when I am done return to KDE with another click.

[hm_murdock]

quote:

1. Hardware incompatibility. All monitors don't work perfectly with all video cards. For that reason 3D can be problematic.

Wha? VGA is VGA... it's a simple analog signal. Only cheap-ass screens should give you fits, as they won't handle high refresh rates.

As for "hardware incompatibility" that only comes into play when you start talking about these newfangled digital display interfaces like DVI and ADC.

[Centurian]

You are right VGA is VGA but your forgetting that VGA is limited to 256 colors. What we use today is a combination of VESA and SuperVga. Yes they are all still called VGA and they are all VGA compatible (that is why windows defaults is a 16 color VGA display) but todays monitors are a lot more than just simple VGA. They are very advanced and there are incompatibilities between monitors and Video Cards. Yours may or may not be 100% compatible. I have several comps here 1 is 100% compatible. The others are mostly compatible.

That is the reason why game companies always recommend using the default refresh rate should you have problems.