Author Topic: Debian  (Read 901 times)

shuiend

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Debian
« on: 15 June 2003, 07:26 »
I want to try Debian now. But i am not sure what all to download. i went to linuxiso.org and there is 7 total cd's. I started cd 1 and 6 and 7. All the others were for specific purposes or it seemed on the debian website. So which all will i need to download to be able to install and get working? Also what is the diffrence between stable and unstable and where do i get each one at?
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Laukev7

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« Reply #1 on: 15 June 2003, 07:56 »
I think a net install from floppies would be more simple for you. That way, you won't have to worry about what CDs to download, and you will only install what you need. Plus, you may not want to burn Linux on CDs, as it is updated quite frequently. It's in the "net install" section, where you can also find a minimal CD net install.

If you already downloaded the CDs, you should be able to boot from the first CD and install the rest with the others. I can't garantee it, though.

The unstable Debian distributions have the most recent packages, and may have bugs and incompatibilities. The stable distribution, which Debian is known for, has gone through intensive testing to make sure that everything works together. However, the stability comes with a price: the packages are often well behind the recent versions.

The stable and unstable distros should be identified on the mirror sites.

[ June 14, 2003: Message edited by: Laukev7 ]


Copperhead

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« Reply #2 on: 15 June 2003, 21:28 »
To get going with Debian, all you really need is the first CD. That is the installer, has the 2.2 and 2.4.18 kernels availible, and a basic set of modules that you will need. To start out, I would gstick with the stable version (woody). It has less packages, but you can find backports of some of the other newer/unavailible packages through unofficial sources around the net. (see last paragraph)

When you first run the CD, it is probably best to enter "bf24" (without quotes) athe the boot: prompt. This will start the 2.4.18 kernel that carries a greater number of modules with it that the default 2.2 kernel.  

The installation is text based, by I am sure you have installed Linux a few times to know what you are doing for a basic install.  When you get to taskel, select X windows, and the development environments it offers.

 Skip the deselect part. Deselect is primitive, and can be a nighmare.

During the installation, you will be asked to add sources to apt. If you are on a cable modem, or on a network that utilizes DHCP, go ahead and configure apt to get the security updates, and add sources from the official Debian apt repository. If you are on dial-up or on DSL that doesn't utilize DHCP, skip the apt configuration. You will have to manually configure it once you are up and running (this is not hard at all.)

You will, at some point, be asked which Desktop Manager you wish to install. Do yourself a foavor and go with KDM. The GDM on that disk, for whatever reason or another, doesn't work too well. It wouldn't let me log in as root! KDM seems to work fine, and you can always switch this later with the updare-rc.d utility that is included with Debian. Just go with KDM for now, until you are up and running and you can do post-install configuration.

Once it starts installing, find something else to do. It takes quite some time.  Once it finishes, you will have to login at the prompt and run /usr/X11R6/bin/xf86config to configure X.  Make sure you know a thing or two about your hardware, especially info pertaining to your monitor's horizontal and vertical sync rates and refresh rates. At the end of this, make sure you skp the first three questions it asks you pertaining to where to save the config file. Answer no to the first threee questions, and save it to /etc/X11/XF86Config-4.  If you configured X right, you should be good to go. If not, keep playing with the configuration utility until you get it right.

If you are using dial-up or PPPoE, you will need to read the next two parts. If not, and you configured apt throught the main installation, you should be good to go. I would suggest going to Debian's site and reading the APT-HOWTO.  

If you are using dial up, you will probably need to configure kppp, or one of those programs. It comes default with KDE.  KDE also has a PPPoE utility that you can use. It is under the INTERNET menu.  Get those configured, and make sure you have internet connectivity.

Now you will need to add sources to apt. Edit the /etc/apt/sources.list file and place these in there (You can substitute US for your country code:
 
deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian stable main contrib non-free

deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US stable/non-US main contrib non-free

deb http://security.debian.org stable/updates main contrib non-free

save the file, then run this:

$ apt-get update

That will give you a starter's database full of applications. Run:

$ apt-get install synaptic

It will download and install synaptic (graphical front-end for apt) for you. Run synaptic:

$ synaptic

It would probably be a wise idea to upgrade whatever you have on there already, so click the upgrade button and then the proceed button. Apt will upgrade all of your installed packages if there is a newer version availible. You can then go through everything, find what you want, select it, hit install, and then proceed, and it will down.oad and install anything you want. Apt is the coolest thing in the world  

If you are looking for packages taht haven't been released under Debian, or that are only availible in the testing/unstable distributions, you can always check www.apt-get.org to see if there are any backports, or if someone made packages for the particular app you want. For example, mplayer does not ship with Debian, but there is a package availible  on that page for it.  Just add it too /etc/apt/sources.list, run apt-get update, and then install it manually or use synaptic.  Just make sure that you add sources for woody if you are using woody. When you start mixing and matching, you can give yourself a lot of problems.

Hop this helps. Let us know if you have any questions.

Faust

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« Reply #3 on: 15 June 2003, 13:28 »
I've been using Debian for a while know and I love it.  A few caveats though - you probably want to get a newer version of XFree86, the version used by default is a bit old.  (Doesn't support a few video cards around my local area.)  All you need of course is the first CD / bootable images, the rest can be apt-get'ed.  You don't really need to know the difference between stable, unstable and testing, you will start off in stable.  It's nice but for me I grabbed XFree86 and KDE from unstable...  Oh and debconf should handle all the X11 setup if you are installing the versions off CD / apt-get, which is much easier than using xf86config.
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Doctor V

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« Reply #4 on: 15 June 2003, 16:45 »
Please don't take this the wrong way, but why Debian?  I guess I hear that Debian trys to be the most stable distro around, but stability dosn't usually become a problem with the major distros.  What else do people see in Debian?  I'm not trying to rat on Debian or anything, but have you thought at all about trying Gentoo?  Its more up to date and runs MUCH faster.  Plus the Gentoo community is really really cool.

shuiend

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« Reply #5 on: 15 June 2003, 17:08 »
Thansk for all the Fast replys. I am going with downloading only the first cd now. I will be burniong it on a CD-RW so i aint wasting the cd.
Doctor V: Gentoo Lunatic i am trying debian because supposably it supports my wireless card out of the box or around that. I also would just like to be able to say i have tried it.
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Copperhead

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« Reply #6 on: 15 June 2003, 17:53 »
quote:
I've been using Debian for a while know and I love it. A few caveats though - you probably want to get a newer version of XFree86, the version used by default is a bit old.  



On the www.apt-get.org page, there are numerous sources availible for all of the XFree86 packages, including reliable Woody builds that will be in Sarge (the next stable distribution of Debian), and backports of stuff in Sid (unstable). There are also CVS builds availible that come out a day/hour or so after the guys/girls at X program their latest build.  However, if you like to use WMs, like Calum, and you have your sources up to date, when you install KDE3.1, or Gnome 2.2; your X server is automatically updated, no matter what.  For example, I decide to try out Gnome 2.2, and instead of compiling, or *.rpm/ing anything, I just added the sources  (deb ftp://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/mirrors.evilgeniuses.org.uk/debian/backports/woody/ gnome2.2/) to the backport to /etc/apt/sources.list. Then:

$ apt-get update (the upgrade doesn't work on this particular package)

$ apt-get remove gdm

$ apt-get remove gnome

$ apt-get install gnome

Voila! Gnome 2.2 is installed, as well as the necessary files for X version 4.2.1.  

The cardinal rule in Debian is that you use packages for the version you are running.  To make light of them, at present moment (`date`)

Woody = stable
Sarge = testing
Sid = unstable


Back in 1999, before this all took place:

Potato = stable
Woody = testing
Sid = unstable

Sid is always Sid.  Today, Sarge will be the next stable version of Debian (with Qt libraries with a very cool installer...along with the option for a preliminary 2.6 kernel) You can mix and match, but don't. Just wait.  Debian, if anything else, requires patience. Everyone wants Apache 2.0.46, but until it meets the prerequisites, figure out the game with 1.3.27. Save yourself the headache.

For the desktop environment, Debian couldn't be easier. Your synaptic abilities will make M$ users gawk at your power, and make Mac users feel like fools for spending the money that they did.  APT is powerful, but only as pwerful as the sources you give it.  Do the work, do the research, and load it up with everything that you require.  If Red Hat has something (Red Hat and Debian are second cousins), you always have 'alien'. man alien will tell you everything you need to know.  I had a bunch of SuSE packages (StarOffice, Terminator X, etc.) that I payed for when I bought SuSE. Sine I am on Debian, I just used alien to convert them all to *.deb. With dpkg, installation worked as a charm. Since dpkg and APT are integrated with each other, you will have no problem purging anything if you no longer want it.

 
quote:
Please don't take this the wrong way, but why Debian? I'm not trying to rat on Debian or anything, but have you thought at all about trying Gentoo?


I am just wondering why you would say that? I know that Gentoo is Debian based (a Japanese Distro if I am/am not mistaken), but I don't think that it has the security updates that Debian has. If you are a entreprenurial SysAdmin, and you want to run with a version of Linux that is stable, can give daily security updates, and you have the tools to get the gearbox rolling, you couldn't be happier with Debian. Distros like Red Hat, SuSE and the BSDs require, what I like to call "ladder-lowering." Moving the M$ drones (at least here in America) to real systems requires training, money, and time. With something as stable as Debian, I can designate priveliges, run operations, save money, and let certain people (only one person now) use APT to do certain tasks, without having to really do anything.

What do you like about Gentoo? I am just curious..

Doctor V

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« Reply #7 on: 15 June 2003, 18:25 »
Yeah, Gentoo's aim isn't stability, while its not unstable, it does require maintenance from time to time.  I really like Gentoo because of A.) Poratge, and B.) the optimization.  I might go for Debian in a corporate environment where stability and security are of utmost importance, unless speed is what is most required for the task.  Debian is still optimized for a i386, while Gentoo gives you alot of control over what type of system it is optimized for, resulting in a faster Linux probably than any other distro.  You can set the flags to optimize it for i386, i686, alpha, athlon, athlon-mp, whatever.  Why not get the most out of your box?  Portage is about the best package management system available, giving you full control of what is installed on your system, and taking care of dependancies automatically.  Honestly speaking portage is kind of slow, however, as it complies everything, and really requires somthing better than a dial up connection.  Its recently broke into stable and unstable (using arch), and its stable packages are well stable enough for everyday use, I have yet to have any problems with any of then (that I didn't cause myself).  Most home users want a fast moving box with up to date packages.  I guess it all boils down to what your going to do with your computer.

V

Doctor V

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« Reply #8 on: 15 June 2003, 19:23 »
And just for the record Gentoo is not a Japanese distrobution, its based in the USA.  It does support Japanese though.  The name Gentoo?  Gentoo is a species of penguin.

V

Copperhead

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« Reply #9 on: 15 June 2003, 20:27 »
Thanks...

Some idiot at my school told me that Debian/Gentoo was strictly an 'Asian' thing.

The clarification was immaculate. Nice work...

I am gooing to try out Gentoo. Downloading as I type via wget...

[ June 15, 2003: Message edited by: Copperhead ]


Faust

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« Reply #10 on: 19 June 2003, 15:10 »
Actually I think there were some command line options to apt get (--source --build?) to make it compile source .deb packages - after that its just the kernel that needs a recompile (and who sticks with a kernel one version point less than the latest stable?  Honestly!)  My opinion however is mainly swayed by a few things - I dont game that much, and the games I do play tend to run fine anyway, and I use my box as a hobby server a bit.  Also the free local Debian mirror coupled with my high download prices (15 AUS cents / meg) tends to stop me from using Gentoo.  ;)   Plus if I want I can just go to unstable anyway and have Gentoo pretty much.
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Faust

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« Reply #11 on: 19 June 2003, 15:11 »
Is there any way I can download isos of all the gentoo source and burn them to CD?  I am interested in trying it (even if I doubt I will be able to live without Debian for long  ;)  .)
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Doctor V

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« Reply #12 on: 19 June 2003, 17:06 »
You can download them from www.gentoo.org
You only need one CD.  I did a stage one install, it only requires a very small group of files.  It takes the longest to install a stage 1, many hours, but produces the most optimized system.  And thats what Gentoo is all about, getting the most out of your hardware.  A stage 3 install would start you off with most of the packages you need, and would be very fast to install, and save you from constant downloading during installation.

Charging for downloads by Mbit is just plain morally wrong.  Probably has somthing to do with the RIAA.  Honestly, it sounds almost crippling for Gentoo, which is setup to download packages every now and then.

V

Faust

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« Reply #13 on: 20 June 2003, 04:01 »
I kind of meant to ask whether I could put all the packages on CD first - that way i can use my friends (cheap) internet connection and not have to DL anything as I install it - just pop in CD's.
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Doctor V

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« Reply #14 on: 20 June 2003, 07:55 »
OK, maybe my last post made no sense, sorry about that.  You can do what you are asking about, I'll try and keep this short:

For installation:
A stage 3 installation with GRP would give you an almost running system with openoffice, xfree, KDE, and Gnome, but not very many other packages.  Thats the farthest you can get during installation.  This is available with release 1.4rc2.  Even with this, you would still need to grab a couple more files, namely a kernel and a bootloader to complete the install, and I don't think they come on the CD, but I could be wrong.  Those should not be too heavy.

After Installtion:
You can get any packages from your friends place, burn them to CD, and install or upgrade them on your computer.  This link will explain how to do this in detail.

V