Author Topic: Restarting Linux?  (Read 886 times)

billy_gates

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 801
  • Kudos: 0
    • http://www.skinner.com/jeffberg
Restarting Linux?
« on: 8 December 2002, 10:50 »
I have read at many Linux sites that you never have to restart Linux, ever.  Is this true.  Even if you update, say the kernel, do u not have to restart?

choasforages

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,729
  • Kudos: 7
    • http://it died
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #1 on: 8 December 2002, 10:53 »
heheh, actally you used to have to restart for a kernel update, but with 2.5 series, no more, almost as simple as going to runlevel 1 and calling the load new kernel syscall/*don't know what it is really called*/
x86: a hack on a hack of a hackway
alpha, hewlett packed it A-way
ppc: the fruity way
mips: the graphical way
sparc: the sunny way
4:20.....forget the DMCA for a while!!!

voidmain

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,605
  • Kudos: 184
    • http://voidmain.is-a-geek.net/
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #2 on: 8 December 2002, 11:18 »
Yeah currently the only thing that I can think of that requires a restart is a kernel update and most hardware installation removal (you don't even have to reboot for some hardware like SCSI drives in hot plug SCSI backplanes or storage arrays).

I've upgraded and installed everything under the sun and have not had to reboot, ever, even on the first versions of Linux I used almost 10 years ago. That's interesting about not having to reboot with 2.5. Even if it doesn't have to POST the system loading a new kernel would be as good as a reboot I would think, I mean if you have to turn off all your services then I consider that a reboot.
Someone please remove this account. Thanks...

CaptainCool

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 129
  • Kudos: 0
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #3 on: 8 December 2002, 18:45 »
quote:
But some Linux box's have not restarted for a long time...
http://uptimes.wonko.com/account.php?op=details&hid=798
Thats a big uptime.



 
quote:
1219d 9h 44m  


Alpha must be a dam good cpu.

KernelPanic

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,878
  • Kudos: 222
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #4 on: 8 December 2002, 19:26 »
quote:
Originally posted by CaptainCool:


Alpha must be a dam good cpu.



It is.
Contains scenes of mild peril.

Fett101

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,581
  • Kudos: 85
    • http://fgmma.com
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #5 on: 8 December 2002, 20:13 »
quote:
Originally posted by X11 && BOB: void main wannabe.:
really, thats cool, cant wait till 2.6.

But some Linux box's have not restarted for a long time...
http://uptimes.wonko.com/account.php?op=details&hid=798
Thats a big uptime.




 
quote:
CPU Load: 0%
Idle: 99%


Of course.. perhaps he has a client that doesn't support reporting of CPU load, but still.

From the Uprimes Project FAQ
 
quote:

Does a high uptime mean an OS is stable?

Not necessarily. This is a common misconception. Uptime alone is merely a measure of how long a system has been continuously running, and does not always take into account how hard that system has been working during that time. Almost any OS, if it has nothing at all to do, will run for a very long time without having any trouble. But only a very good OS on solid hardware will achieve a high uptime while being put to thorough use. We try to compensate for this by allowing clients to report CPU usage and average idle time data, but not all clients support these features yet.


foobar

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 308
  • Kudos: 0
    • http://www.fuckmicrosoft.com
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #6 on: 8 December 2002, 21:33 »
Excuse my ignorance - but what is your point?
Linux user #283039

Gosh, I love Linux Quake.


xyle_one

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,213
  • Kudos: 135
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #7 on: 8 December 2002, 23:03 »
probably that the uptime means shit, because the computer isnt doing shit. not to defend the fett, but it seemed obvious that is what he was getting at

voidmain

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,605
  • Kudos: 184
    • http://voidmain.is-a-geek.net/
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #8 on: 8 December 2002, 23:58 »
First of all let me say that uptimes listed on a site specifically for the purpose of showing off uptimes really don't mean anything, especially when the numbers are so easily faked. Netcraft is a little better of an indicator because uptime isn't it's primary mission and is much more difficult to fake but I have proven that I can not only fake the uptime on Netcraft but I can fake the other statistics that it gathers (OS and Web Server). So I have lost some respect for the numbers that even Netcraft holds although they are more likely to be right.

Second of all, average CPU utilization is really not an important indicator of how much the server is used and how important it is. Many important roles take very little CPU. For instance I have had several Linux machines with multi-year uptimes, but you would never see those uptimes because the machines are far behind firewalls in closets performing very important internal networking tasks.

Things like intranet servers and proxy servers for several thousand clients. These machines just sat in the closets chugging away. Now even though massive traffic is being processed, filtered, access granted/denied, the load average may only barely register, even on old machines. If your CPU usage averages above 50% or even above 25% you might want to think about putting a faster machine or analyzing other aspects of the configuration to see if there are other ways to make the machine run optimally. That is a fairly high average utilization depending on the type of work the machine is doing.

Uptime is not nearly as important as reliability but it is important. It's nice to know I don't have to schedule an upgrade and reboot of a critical machine at 2:00am because most of these things can be done on the fly without having to reboot, on Linux and most UNIX system that is. I have also had servers with close to two years of uptime that do have higher utilization averages. One of them serves many fairly high traffic web sites, imap/pop mail, streaming video/audio, DNS, and many other functions. And it's only an old Compaq server running Linux. During high traffic periods the CPU utilization can be up in the 80% range but still the overall average is under 20%. This is a very high CPU utilization average, too high. Because during that period where the CPU is averaging 80% there are many peaks of 100% where during that time the machine can not service requests as fast as a machine could that had more resources and a faster processor.

When tuning a system your goal is to get the system to do the most amount of work with the least amount of CPU utilization. Good running system will usually have a low load average. Things that can effect it are not having enough RAM which causes a lot of paging/swapping which increase CPU time. But there are *many* factors where bottle-necks can occur and cause the system not to perform well.

[ December 08, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]

Someone please remove this account. Thanks...

DC

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 211
  • Kudos: 0
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #9 on: 9 December 2002, 01:16 »
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Gates: Mac Commando:
I have read at many Linux sites that you never have to restart Linux, ever.  Is this true.

Technically, yes - although restarting once in a while isn't too bad, certainly on a x86 user-system (in contrast to a server system). Most notably IDE harddisks aren't made for 24/7 operation week in week out for months.

On stable hardware (the OS isn't the only thing that determins hardware) the only thing to stop you from having a continuous uptime is kernel upgrading or hardware upgrading. With 2.5 (or heavy wizardry) and some hot-swapping devices you can all but eliminate that too if you want to (proc and mem are the only hardware parts that are really needed and have no hot-swapping capability available I think (I define the mainboard as "the" computer - which makes it naturally non-swappable) - although some things are better in their non-swappable form).

Do note that for some stuff (IE upgrades to applications/server software) services may need to be switched off, including the network, taking you offline.

But you could theoretically have a computer running indefinitly, that is if you don't have a problem running ancient bug-ridden software and have the ability to protect it from all real-world dangers (like power outages, fire, breakdown, the end of the universe...).
GS/CS d- s-: a--- C++ UL+ P+ L++>+++ E W++ N>+ o K- w-- O- M V? PS+>++ PE- Y+ PGP t+ 5+ X R tv+ b+++ DI+ D+ G++ e>++++ h! r- y
A quantummechanical wavefunction describing an unknown amount of bottles of beer on the wall
A quantummechanical wavefunction describing an unknown amount of bottles of beer on the wall
We take a measurement, the wavefunction will collapse, and one of the bottles of beer will fall

voidmain

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,605
  • Kudos: 184
    • http://voidmain.is-a-geek.net/
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #10 on: 9 December 2002, 01:28 »
On another note, even CPUs/boards are hot swappable on some systems. I have pulled CPU boards out of sun servers (they are hot plug drawers) and replaced CPUs and memory on the fly.
Someone please remove this account. Thanks...

billy_gates

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 801
  • Kudos: 0
    • http://www.skinner.com/jeffberg
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #11 on: 10 December 2002, 03:00 »
quote:
Originally posted by void main:
On another note, even CPUs/boards are hot swappable on some systems. I have pulled CPU boards out of sun servers (they are hot plug drawers) and replaced CPUs and memory on the fly.


this is only on multiprocessors machines right?

pkd_lives

  • Member
  • **
  • Posts: 554
  • Kudos: 0
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #12 on: 10 December 2002, 03:05 »
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Gates: Mac Commando:


this is only on multiprocessors machines right?




If you can put your CPU into a park state and restart it from a park state then it would be technically possible to hot swap a single processor system.
Tough - Adapt or die : Read The Fucking Manual.

Local Area Network in Australia: the LAN down under.


voidmain

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,605
  • Kudos: 184
    • http://voidmain.is-a-geek.net/
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #13 on: 10 December 2002, 03:33 »
quote:
Originally posted by Billy Gates: Mac Commando:


this is only on multiprocessors machines right?



Of course. If you pull your only processor you are pretty much done processing.     In fact On most Sun hardware they use at least 2 CPUs per CPU board. If you only had one CPU board you couldn't hot swap it. You have to have more than one board. The last one I did had 5 boards (10 CPUs).

[ December 09, 2002: Message edited by: void main ]

Someone please remove this account. Thanks...

choasforages

  • VIP
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,729
  • Kudos: 7
    • http://it died
Restarting Linux?
« Reply #14 on: 10 December 2002, 03:52 »
yeah, i remember seeing those things, what kind of kernel architecture  does sun use, monilithic? mirco? exo?
x86: a hack on a hack of a hackway
alpha, hewlett packed it A-way
ppc: the fruity way
mips: the graphical way
sparc: the sunny way
4:20.....forget the DMCA for a while!!!