The revolution begins...

[Aloone_Jonez]

Hey Rio, long time no see.  

The commandline stay for when the GUI goes down and for people who want to use it like your self

The command line user interface sould disappear to the background for normal system administration.

To a certain extent this already happens in Linux, the problem I have with Linux is that some of the more powerful features are not easily discoverable. They are often hidden in the command line, you need to RTFM or ask someone before you know they exist.

For example if I install the wrong video driver, I would have to restore the XF86Config file from the backup using the command line to get KDE back. How the fuck would someone who has never done this before find this out?
They would have to RTFM or ask someone.

If they were using Windows it would either revert back to the previous driver or, go into safe mode and provide them with the same GUI to correct the problem.

[KernelPanic]

quote:Originally posted by Aloone:
Tux was just ripping the piss out of me, for saying:
 

Wrong, I actually asked a question:

 

quote:Originally posted by JimmyJames: GenSTEP Founder:

- MsgService
Provides a mail-like IPC service. Applications register identities to utilize the service. To request an identity's "mail", you must supply the proper password that the app gave at registration too. I only put security in places I knew it would be hard to implement at the app level. For instance you can probably spoof messages and that's the fun of it. No application should use this for mission-critical communication anyway right now. The spoofing part I'm sure will spawn little apps that manipulate other apps which is a plus for Komodo.

Could I ask what the point of that is?
You seem to be reinventing several wheels
   :rolleyes:

[savet]

quote:
Hey Rio, long time no see.

Yep, work has been keeping me busy.  I browse the forums a few times a week, but don't get the time to post that I would like  

 

quote:
The commandline stay for when the GUI goes down and for people who want to use it like your self

The command line user interface sould disappear to the background for normal system administration.

To a certain extent this already happens in Linux, the problem I have with Linux is that some of the more powerful features are not easily discoverable. They are often hidden in the command line, you need to RTFM or ask someone before you know they exist.

You are correct that it takes more time to learn the command line.  Fortunately though, it tends to be very consistent across the board.  For instance, commands and their options don't differ a whole lot.  Or what works on one command, tends to work on another.

I use Slack as my day to day distro, so I have the advantage of being forced to RTFM  

I think the only distro I've seen recently where the command line could actually be forgotten was Suse.  YaST makes installing RPMs a series of clicks.

I'm kind of curious to see how GenSTEP behaves.  I know Jimmy isn't much of a fan of cryptic commands either, but I wonder how intuitive the GUI can be at this stage of the game (beyond basic KDE/Gnome functionality).  ....speaking of cryptic commands, I keep having to delete a series of "j"s after editing something because I forget I'm not in VIM :-D

[Aloone_Jonez]

How is having to RTFM a good thing?

My design teacher always used to say, "With a poorly designed product you always have to RTFM"

Jimmy, will the 3D desktop serve a useful purpose?

   

quote:
Nearly everybody has a GeForce or Radeon vid card, or a major-chipset mobo, or whatever.

No, nearly every Linux user has, not very many Windows users do.

For example the PC I am currently using (I'm at work at the moment) has an ATI 3D RAGE PRO, and it's not too bad.

My previous PC also had a similar ATI card, and that was OK too.    

[ July 21, 2004: Message edited by: Aloone ]

[hm_murdock]

quote:Jimmy, will the 3D desktop serve a useful purpose?

As I explained, it'll be used to accelerate desktop rendering, much like Quartz Extreme does. It will add some "nifty" features like drop shadows and alpha translucency, but I want to keep the eye-candy to a minimum. I think that something can be attractive without being gaudy

[KernelPanic]

Jimmy take off your sunglasses I think they have a Tux filter.

[hm_murdock]

sorry!

 

quote:Could I ask what the point of that is?
You seem to be reinventing several wheels

Well, I think it's going to be significantly more advanced, much more capable than current *nix IPC methods.

Either that, or he's just doing it so that it will conform to Granite (C++), Marble (C#), and GenSTEP (Obj-C) APIs

[KernelPanic]

k, cool.
I might try and talk to fury sometime.

[savet]

quote:How is having to RTFM a good thing?

My design teacher always used to] say, "With a poorly designed product you always have to RTFM"

Jimmy, will the 3D desktop serve a useful purpose?

Very few good products can be used to their full potential without reading a manual or documentation.   Adobe Photoshop is a prime example.  With a good book or tutorial, it drastically shortens the learning curve.  I doubt anyone can claim Photoshop isn't a spectacular program.

A thing most people forget is that a user friendly program is not the program that is the easiest to use.  That is user intuitive.  The user friendly program is the one that does everything the user wants it to.

Windows = User Intuitive
Linux = User Friendly

[ July 21, 2004: Message edited by: Rio ]

[hm_murdock]

agreed. it's easier to "figure out" a simple UI... so many people go for that.

you can have a friendly UI and it not be simple.

however, Adobe's UIs are neither friendly nor good.

[Aloone_Jonez]

quote:
I want to keep the eye-candy to a minimum.

I hate eye-candy too, it's just bloat.    
If you promise that the 3D desktop will make it easier too use or serve some other purpose then I might buy a new graphics card!

I would say simple is good but not retardedly simple.

I liked some of the older versions of Paint shop pro, as they were easier to use than the newer versions.

XP is retardedly simple.

[hm_murdock]

eye-candy has its place.

in this day-and-age it's what sets you apart from the rest. it's a natural extension of appearance.

Windows goes for very simple, honestly, eye-candy. alpha-blended icons, fades, et cetera. OS X goes all out with watery ripples, drop-shadows, and reflections.

the power of modern computers makes it superfluous. I don't mind eye-candy. it makes an otherwise boring experience kinda nice. I rather like it that menus fade in. the human brain expects transitions. so, many times, eye candy is psychologically less jarring.

[flap]

quote:Originally posted by Rio:
A thing most people forget is that a user friendly program is not the program that is the easiest to use.  That is user intuitive.  The user friendly program is the one that does everything the user wants it to.

Windows = User Intuitive
Linux = User Friendly

[ July 21, 2004: Message edited by: Rio ]

Mmm not quite. The difference is really between user-friendliness and usability (I'd have said user-intuitive and user-friendly meant the same thing). A user friendly program is the program that's easiest to use, while a usable program is one that does everything the user wants it to. So really it's

Unix = Usable
Windows = User friendly

[solarismka]

quote:Originally posted by Rio:


Very few good products can be used to their full potential without reading a manual or documentation.   Adobe Photoshop is a prime example.  With a good book or tutorial, it drastically shortens the learning curve.  I doubt anyone can claim Photoshop isn't a spectacular program.

A thing most people forget is that a user friendly program is not the program that is the easiest to use.  That is user intuitive.  The user friendly program is the one that does everything the user wants it to.

Windows = User Intuitive
Linux = User Friendly

[ July 21, 2004: Message edited by: Rio ]

that is an aswome way of putting it!  I should use that as a sig!