Why do you prefer *nix?

[gump420]

quote:Originally posted by Foney:
I still havent seen a good arguement on why *nix is better than NT/2k.   :confused:  

This statement just goes to show, my friends, that there are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.

(Oh, and VoidMain -- wtf???)

[Foney]

well give me a good arguement on why *nix is better. List some reasons.

[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: Foney ]

[mr6re9]

Guilty buy association.

Very simply put, *.nix users are a friendlier lot. There is a lot more help out there for newbies like myself. Without help from the many *.lugs, I would not have the smooth, reliable OS that I do.

Try to get help from Mycrowsauce without first obtaining a pissport. I think DOT NOT. I don't wish to get tangled in that NET.

I've come to this forum on a quest for information. I want to know why I cannot control, organize and OWN my Windows box, like I can control, organize and OWN my Linux box.

Glad to be here. That is all for now. I'll resume sandbagging.

Happy Holidays,

farmer6re9

[Foney]

quote:Originally posted by farmer6re9:
Try to get help from Mycrowsauce without first obtaining a pissport. I think DOT NOT. I don't wish to get tangled in that NET.

I've come to this forum on a quest for information. I want to know why I cannot control, organize and OWN my Windows box, like I can control, organize and OWN my Linux box.

What on earth are you talking about!?? What windows OS have you tried? Cause I know you haven't tried 2000 with that statement.

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by Foney:


What on earth are you talking about!?? What windows OS have you tried? Cause I know you haven't tried 2000 with that statement.

Do you own your copy of Win2k?  I think not, and as a matter of fact you can only put it on one machine.  I have 8 machines on my home network.  Hmmm, how much would that set me back?  Let alone if I wanted run a copy of NT Server w/IIS/SQL Server and expose one of them to the Internet?  How much is that going to set me back?  Now if I want to write some DLLs for my nice shiney IIS server I guess I'll have to buy a copy of VC or VB, how much is that going to set me back?  Let alone when I get done with this I have a slow piece of shit IIS server that any 15 year old can hack in to.

I have already listed *many* reasons why Win* (including Win2k) is inferior in several message threads.  I'm not going to repeat them.  But then MS users have a hard time reading, hence "Video Professor".

[gump420]

My reasons:

*NIX has better multitasking than WinNT (including 2K and XP)
*NIX has better security
*NIX is better at allocation of memory
*NIX doesn't crash as much
*NIX variants can be obtained for free, as opposed to the draconian costs associated with WinNT
*NIX can be scaled down for specific tasks - with NT you have to take the whole salami, whether you want/need it or not
*NIX runs on more platforms

etc, etc . . .

[Foney]

Yes I have win 2k and yes I have linux. And I am always racing with bugtraq to keep my linux box secure. And any teen can hack win2k? how about any teen can hack linux with a cpp book and piss in the code. And what about when a box is owned on linux? say bye bye to your logs. As with 2k logs can be locked even when a machine is completely owned remotely.

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by Foney:
Yes I have win 2k and yes I have linux. And I am always racing with bugtraq to keep my linux box secure. And any teen can hack win2k? how about any teen can hack linux with a cpp book and piss in the code. And what about when a box is owned on linux? say bye bye to your logs. As with 2k logs can be locked even when a machine is completely owned remotely.

Hmmm, that must by why Gartner (usually nazi toward MS and well respected by MS nazi mid/upper level management) has this recommendation:

http://www3.gartner.com/DisplayDocument?doc_cd=101034

And this next one has been a fundamental flaw for years.  I see they finally have a patch, which involves installing IE6 and a patch of course. For the long period of time before this patch Microsoft refused to recognize it as a bug (that's what they do when caught with their pants down wondering how to fix a big one). So this is an example of them not getting off their duffs and getting a problem fixed in a timely fashion. In the open source world, this would have been licked in no time:

http://www.ntbugtraq.org/bid/3578

And the logs in NT/2k are absolute dribble. Let's see, I have 3 choices... System, Application, or Security.  And that security log is a real winner.

And because I can do something in UNIX that I can't do in Win* called remote logging, someone owning a box can't get to the logs let alone all the other ways I can manipulate the logging facility.  And with remote logging and a log parser sniffing for security events my log machine will page me (using utilities included with the OS).  They've got no chance at getting too far.

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: VoidMain ]

[voidmain]

And my favorite stupid WinNT/Win2k trick. Any normal user can become administrator without knowing the administrator password, assuming they can log on to the machine locally as a normal user, works great in a corporate desktop environment:

[list=A]

• copy %WINDIR%\SYSTEM32\LOGON.SCR to %WINDIR%\SYSTEM32\LOGON.ORG
• copy %WINDIR%\SYSTEM32\CMD.EXE to %WINDIR%\SYSTEM32\LOGON.SCR
• logoff, in 15 minutes (900 secs) you will see a DOS window appear
• you can now create a new user with Windows NT administrator priviledges or change the Administrator password with utilities such as USRMGR.EXE, MUSRMGR.EXE or ADDUSERS.EXE (if you don't have them installed, copy them from CD/ResKit, or have someone email you their copy)
• after you are done, you can type exit in the DOS window
• copy %WINDIR%\SYSTEM32\LOGON.ORG to %WINDIR%\SYSTEM32\LOGON.SCR

Note: The above assumes the system you are trying to own is using the "default" logon screen saver.  If it uses something else just replace "logon.scr" in the instructions above with whatever *.scr file is currently being used for the logon screen saver.

This is great corporate fun. And it's a handy way for administrators to recover from a forgotten administrator password.  What security!  Might as well save the bucks and stick with your lame Win9x for the desktops.

Side note for NT admins. This really can come in handy to recover a lost password so you don't have to reinstall the OS and lose all your SAM info. And if you can't copy the file as a normal user, yank the drive out and stick it in as a second drive in another running system, copy the CMD.EXE to the <SECONDDRIVE>:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\LOGON.SCR, then put the drive back in the original machine and wait for the CMD prompt to appear and do yer magic.

But don't mark me for "+" on the MS side.  It's a "-" as it's a big security hole.

And yes if you have local access to a machine whether Win* or Linux you can own it, assuming it has a floppy and/or a cdrom (boot from floppy/cdrom, mount the root filesystem, have your way). If the system is physically chained to the desk and doesn't have a floppy/cdrom, you're only going to own the Win* box. To be able to bypass the security so blatantly on a running system is just laughable.

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: VoidMain ]

[mr6re9]

I think I'm going to enjoy this forum    

There is a good mix of knowelege, skepticism and ignorance.

The ignorance is the part I'm enjoying right now.

[condorstats]

But why should I change?? I have Win XP running fine, it has yet to crash, preview pane is turned off, built in Firewall, AV software installed. the pc just works, thats all I need. Can you name any reasons why the AVERAGE home user should use *NIX? NO better multitasking bull, most peps dont care, just some reasons why it is better.

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by condorstats:
But why should I change?? I have Win XP running fine, it has yet to crash, preview pane is turned off, built in Firewall, AV software installed. the pc just works, thats all I need. Can you name any reasons why the AVERAGE home user should use *NIX? NO better multitasking bull, most peps dont care, just some reasons why it is better.

If you ask this question then it's likely you will never see an OS other than MS. And I certainly won't try to convince you to switch because you are obviously content. But for those of us who have used MS operating systems extensively, and operating systems other than MS extensively, we know that the non-MS operating systems are superior and we do not want to have to pay Microsoft when we buy computers if we are not going to use Microsoft.

And we certainly don't want Microsoft to take over the Internet like they are trying to do and have already been somewhat successful at.  The internet was created to more easily permit the flow of information, not for comercialization with all the marketing crap that goes on.  In my OS I *can* use the preview pane in any of my mail programs and not have to worry about getting a virus, because viruses do not exist in my operating system. I don't have to turn off features because they are unsafe. My operating system is free, as in speech, and as in cost.  I can look at the source code to make sure there is no funny business going on under the covers and am encouraged to do so. I can make changes to any part of the OS to suit my specific needs if I so choose, don't even have to ask. With Windows it's "WYSIWYG". If I choose to install it on as many systems as I like without paying a soul, I can, and I do.

Some of us have good reasons for not trusting microsoft any farther than we can throw them. Some of us have good reasons for believing Microsoft has way too much control over hardware vendors (and in many other areas).

And my OS has included with it, a better Solitaire game, among 100 other similar time wasters MS users so love, not that I play games. This is probably what 50% of home MS users do with their computers.  You are content with your OS so why even ask the question?  Some of us were so frustrated with the MS problems we mustered the energy to try something else out and we were rewarded.

I've listed at least one reason why MS operating systems are inferior in every one of my posts, look at the number of my posts at the bottom of this message, then hold down your Windows Key

[condorstats]

I haver actually used Win 95 for over 4 years, and just installed, i also have Mandrake 8.0 installed, yet I fail to see the any reason why i should make a permanent move to Linux. I like Linux, its cool, its configfurable, and it is a good OS. But overall, as normal use goes, noether XP nor Mandrake 8.0 impress me more than the other.

[mr6re9]

A very comprehensive summation VoidMan, and one that should put to rest this thread. Sounds convincing to me, but I already reached this conclusion the hard way.

I'd like to add that gaming was not a priority on my PC either. HOWEVER, I got curious when I found Quake III arena on a secret little shelf in a local store. It was a Linux version. You just don't find too many of these little gems. To make a long story short, it operates much more efficiently in Linux than Win. I simply get MORE frags.

Thanks for visiting, many happy returns. It will be improving like FINE WINE over TIME.  

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by condorstats:
I haver actually used Win 95 for over 4 years, and just installed, i also have Mandrake 8.0 installed, yet I fail to see the any reason why i should make a permanent move to Linux.

Who's telling you to make a permanant move? Shit, I still have to use MS because there are a few apps out there that do not exist for Linux (that's not the fault of Linux). There is one R/C Flight Simulator that we really like and I've kept a copy of Win98 around just to run it. For everything else I use Linux. If all of the developers put out a Linux version along with an MS version (including MS) life would be good.

So you've used Win95 for four years.  Do you also have four years on Linux? I have over 15 years working w/MS, ~10 years w/Linux (from the beginning), ~12 years with *NIX in general.  I have to use and support both.  I prefer *NIX. You have the right to like and use whatever OS you want, or both.  At least until Bill Gates takes over the world, then there will be nuclear winter.