The Fast-Food Syndrome: The Linux Platform is Getting Fat

[Zombie9920]

While you are correct about the stupid people I don't see them as a bad thing. Why? Because I make a living working on thier computers(I work in a computer shop        ). All of the idiots with a computer wanting a new one or just wanting a computer raises the demand for the systems and the hardware for computer systems which in turn drives the hardware prices down which ends up benifiting the non-idiots who know what hardware is and uses it(likes to build systems+likes to upgrade). The idiots also present more and more jobs for the tech/computer savvy(not bad at all for people who value making a good living).

Plus those same idiots helped make it possible to have such easy access to the internet in any household. Remember back in the day when the internet was considered a luxury that only rich people had? Now the internet is becoming more and more of a nessecity and anybody has access to it. Not only rich people.

I for one appreciate the internet being how it is today. I mean even high speed connections are relativetaley dirt cheap these days. If the internet wasn't what it is now because of idiots raisng the demand and lowering the cost of bandwidth you wouldn't be here reading this post as we speak.

[ July 09, 2004: Message edited by: Viper ]

[WMD]

I'm sorry, but every time I see a stupid person's computer, I feel sorry for all the shit that has been done to it.  

Also, my family has had internet access since 1990.  I wouldn't be in any danger.  

[solarismka]

quote:Originally posted by Viper:
While you are correct about the stupid people I don't see them as a bad thing. Why? Because I make a living working on thier computers(I work in a computer shop           ).p

But viruses and spyware is not their fault.  Give them linux and guess what. Its all good.


 

quote:
 All of the idiots with a computer wanting a new one or just wanting a computer raises the demand for the systems and the hardware for computer systems which in turn drives the hardware prices down which ends up benifiting the non-idiots who know what hardware is and uses it(likes to build systems+likes to upgrade). The idiots also present more and more jobs for the tech/computer savvy(not bad at all for people who value making a good living).

There is no argument that because M$ is so buggy that its creating an entire economy around it, but as someone who is a sysadmin and has repaired peoples computers I get sick of the same thing day after day with no possible solution.  

However thanks to M$ its easy to make viruses, trojans and spyware.  So M$ greatest weaknes is also their greatest strength.

As for m$ and hardware.  Well they are not related.  Hardware would of improved anyways.  What would be different under A Linux desktop is that you would be able to do more things even quickly where as M$ its the same thing with the same or even slower speed.

 

quote:
Plus those same idiots helped make it possible to have such easy access to the internet in any household. Remember back in the day when the internet was considered a luxury that only rich people had?[/qoute]

Its still is in most parts of the world.

Now the internet is becoming more and more of a nessecity and anybody has access to it. Not only rich people.

Not quite anybody.  Canada and finland yes but even the U.S. its only 35% and most of those people ARE rich.


 

quote:
I for one appreciate the internet being how it is today. I mean even high speed connections are relativetaley dirt cheap these days.

Depending on the cuntry.  The U.K its bloody expensive! butthen again so is everything else there.


 

quote:
 If the internet wasn't what it is now because of idiots raisng the demand and lowering the cost of bandwidth you wouldn't be here reading this post as we speak.

Welp I would not say the internet evolved because of 'idiots.'  The net evoloved because its a great way to communicate and is unrestricted when it comes to information.  Even the U.S. has a hard time controling it and the backbone is in that country!

As for hardware, again that would of evolved without 'idiots' and M$.

[ July 09, 2004: Message edited by: Viper ][/b]

[hm_murdock]

quote:I will not call just anyone a troll.

Only people you lose arguments to. It's hilarious. Solaris trolls about me being a troll.

I love it!

Remember everybody, Solaris is Dipshit #1. He goes around and badgers me about "being a troll", which makes him one! He's so stupid that it's cute!

[solarismka]

quote:Originally posted by Viper:
[QB]

The main reason why I support MS is because they are the reason why our technology is so advanced nowadays.

Not really. It advanced due to pure sience into technology, reaserch and the understanding to push technology futher.  It has nothing to do with marketing or M$ IMO


 

quote:
 Thier higher OS requirements naturally forced hardware to get faster and eventually cheaper(to bring computers into more households).

I agree that in order to run Xp you need a bigger machine just to do the same thing and have the same problems.  But knowing that fact is what stops people from upgrading.  Why should there if the new M$ os is no different from previous ones other than it may be even harder to use.


 

quote:
 Make no mistake about it, MS's monoply is the exact reason why 90% of households has a computer nowadays compared to less than 5% of households having one back in the 80's due to high prices.

Prices have not changed.  Again most can't afford computers let alone computers that can run something the size of XP.

 

quote:
Another reason why I support MS is for the same reason why Apple supporters support Apple. I like thier products, and I know that it takes 1 company to control a successful OS.

Or make a good add FUD campain.  Thank goodness apple never did those tatics and actualy improved their OS.

I love the way OSX looks although i'll stick to Linux.

 

quote:
 Why in the hell do you think Linux has the lack of drivers,

It doesn't.

 

quote:
 games and professional quality apps?

I've used Red Hat and SuSE!  There are plenty of games and professional apps for Linux!

 

quote:
 IT is because there are so many different distros of it and no sane company is going to spend all of that development time to make thier stuff compatible with all of the fucking distros.

It doesn't matter what the distro it is.  Linux uses standards.  What works for Red Hat will work for debian, SuSE, mandrake etc....  With just one app!  Thats why professional apps such as OO and the Gimp and run on ALL distros.

Where as if something is built for 2k it might not run on XP like wise a document created in m$ word 97 cannot be opend in m$ office 2k3.  This is because each version in Microsoft uses a different version with different files.  Thats where dll hell and registry problems com in to.

 

quote:
In my opinion I feel that Linux is more of a toy than a real desktop alternative.

IMO M$ windows is a pure geek OS because it takes so much work just to run and to do simple stuff.  M$ is great if you want to know how much 'maintenence' your local admin has to put up with.

 

quote:
 Linux is great as a server but I'd take Unix over Linux for server purposes.

I see no difference in Unix vs Linux.  Other than Linux is easier to install and has ease of use.

Thats it everything else is basically the same.

 

quote:
I have tried Linux many of times and no matter how much I try to like it or find it useful I just simply cannot because it doesn't support all of the stuff I use on my computer

Hmmm, I found that windows didn't support the stuff I did.  Like writing software, doing graphics, testing and p2ping.  I needed a strong durable ease of use machine to do those things and not take time off to constantly fix it with patches that would break stuff etc....


 

quote:
 and it is a huge hassle to do what should be simply like getting a Radeon card to work properly or installling  a media player(MPlayer).

Welp IMO it has been the opposit.  If I want to install an Media player I just fire up synaptic, select the package an done!

Or I can choose it from the CD click on the package and done!  

I find it way easier than figuring out why media player doesn't work only to find out that the codec is not supported.  Hunting around for it, getting hit by a virus because of that looking and then once installed having to deal with bugs!  Why is that image upside down?  Why is it blank but I have sound or visa versa.

I have a radeon 7500 with S-Video out.  All Linux did was detect it and then it itself located and installed the driver from within the kernel.  No need to find that drivers disk.  Finding it on the net or getting driver software that currputs the rgistry or needs an obscure dll file.

 

quote:
  Linux is not practicle. It probably never will be either simply because there is no centeralized control of it.

There is or how is it that any package can run on any distro?  Even an old distro can support the latest KDE!

 

quote:
MacOS is based on a more complex kernel than Linux

complex no.  Older and under a different license yes.

 

quote:
 but it is practicle and very easy to use because you guessed it, a company maintains it...

No I think its because, Like Linux, they put people first and are not always about massive PR.

 

quote:
not a community of geeks+hackers.

Nope Linux and Macs arn't made for such things.  But window certinly is.  You gotta be a geek/hacker to keep it up and tuned!

 

quote:
 It is centeralized so software makers+driver makers can easily make an app that will work with any install

Yep thats Linux!

 

quote:
 of it because there aren't 4,000 other versions of the same kernel.

All distros do is package their distro for their audience.  Because of that same kernel all software is standerdized under Linux.

 

quote:
 On top of the easy software vendor support MacOSX also has an easy to use interface and a damn good+easy to use driver+software installation system.

Very true however i find that KDE is the esiest UI I have ever used,  Way easier than windows!  Looks nicer and more professional too!

 

quote:
 A user will never have to get into a command line to get thier shit to work like in Linux.  

Most linux users don't they use the control panal unlike windows users that have to boot into safe mode or into dos and or fix that registry once again.  Nobody knows what Value=01X0000000


 

quote:
Linux will never have a real place in the home desktop market just because there are too many distros

Millions can disagre with you.  Corperations are adopting Linux simply because its easier to use and maintain with better security and package managment.  My office uses Linux just as I use it here as a desktop.  Heck if windows can make it using bad software then Linux definnatly can since its got quality backing it up!

 

quote:
 for any real software makers to keep track of.

Again Linux is standard, windows is not.

 

quote:
The real software support will always be for closed source, company owned systems like MacOS and Windows because it saves them alot of time and money

Not when they have to determin hidden API's and IE hooks when making their program!

 

quote:
(time saved is money saved for software companies).

Nope because they don't know what is under the hood.  They don't know how to peace their software together.  I have 2 deplomas in VB and VC++ Its mush more difficult under windows than it is under Linux!  Pluse there is not standard in windows.  If I code a program under Xp home it might not even work under XP pro.  In fact I have had that happen to me!

 

quote:
Linux is useful for a hobbyist

Home Users, Software Developers, Corperate Users and even Gamers thanks to WineX!!!

 

quote:
 who really enjoys tinkering with everything

If their a windows user.  I cand stand tinkering with everything.  I just want to get my work done without the hassle of reboots, viruses and malware.

 

quote:
 or for a server that will need to be configured once and left running down in a basement, closet, etc.

Yep but they can do desktop just as easily.

 

quote:
As for being surprised about showing my face here don't be surprised. I've been a member here for a long time and for the most part I get along with these people(with the exception of a few). I'm not a bad guy becuase I like Windows.

Nope your not, just someone with an opinion.  My view on windows is different since I've worked as an administrator who had to repair Windows and I think they are just too much of a headach.

 

quote:
 I am not one of those ignorant Windows fanboys who sit around and says stupid shit like MS rules the world, Linux sucks, switch to Windows, blah blah.

 

quote:
 I could care less what any of you use because your preference is just that as is mine. Software isn't a religion.

ABSOLUTLY AGREE!!!

 

quote:
 FYI - don't ever say something like don't be afraid to answer your questions to me because you can take it as a given that I will answer any question at any time.            

The power of a forum.  If you have joind into a conversation, you can go out and come back and still be in it.

 

quote:
What do I use my computer for? I use it to play games, listen to music, burn music, transfer music and files to my iPod, surf the net, chat, do work(real work that requires profesional grade apps that are not available to Linux), to shop, etc.

Same here.  I develop software, test, burn and listen to music, play DVD's, burn DVD's onto VHS or another VCD.  Download music movies etc.. I use alot of professional software to develop in.  OO and the gimp has to be my favourates as well as the many software and development enviroments in Linux.  Thanks to KDE and synaptic/apt-get software is dead easy to install!  I also shop surf the net and chat with amsn and xchat.  I have more than one computer though because Linux has saved me money. I have my own Web Server. and i use more than one distro.  Red Hat 9 and SuSE 8.2 and 9.  All can run the same software applications.  If I design something for red hat it will work with SuSE too.

Which is great and takes a load off of me!  No down time or constant repairs and I don't have to worry about malware or virus updates or huge patches.

 

quote:
 I use my computer for alot of different things and I demand an OS that just works and has something available for any possibility of what can be done with the system.

Same here.  I can't take tweeking or repairing all day.  Its too much!

 

quote:
 I demand having fast, high-end hardware because it makes the experience better(especially with games or working with huge audio/video/picture files)as well as encoding.

I demand a fast machine without shelling out the bug bucks.  If I do then I feel that thinks should improve and not do the same task with the same speed with just more hardware specs.

 

quote:
I refuse to buy those OEM crap boxes like Dell because they use the cheapest hardware they can to cut costs and increase profits.

That might be the reason I see them crashing at the store.  Who knows.

 

quote:
.especially  thier crappy motherboards+they give you a crappy PSU which hurts stability big time.

For hardware Compaq is pritty good.  Eather case even a dell seems to run fine on Linux.  I've got a dell optiplex that ran Fedora core.  I forgot, my server is running FC1.  Runs great too!

 

quote:
 I am all for building my own system(s) with all quality parts.

Me too.

 

quote:
 I do not skimp on anything(not even a floppy drive which I never use).

Neather do I.

 

quote:
 If you say you had problems with XP on your system it is proably because 1 - it has a shit motherboard and a shit PSU and more than likely a shit intergrated video and sound card+shit ram

Not really. Those machines work fine under Linux and two didn't you say it was easier for hardware software developers to work with M$?  See closed source makes things that much harder.  Thats why those same 'shit' hardware works fine under any open source OS.

 

quote:
 and
2 - OEMs tend to load the OS to the brim with useless apps that run in the background at all times which hogs Memory and CPU cycles.

You mean that they come with AV's, spy ware removal one or two or three service packs, a fire wall of some kind, managment maintenence software, a bundled software suit (included in the price) etc...

You need all that stuff anyways for windows.

 

quote:
 If you do a restore installlation you will just be back at square 1

Yep.  Nothing no apps exept notpad and paint and also IE.

 

quote:
 with all of the shit software that they felt they needed to have run at the startup of Windows. Do you know how many times Windows XP Professional(Corporate Edition) has crashed on me or locked up on me with this system? 1 time and it wasn't Windows fault. It fucked up because I uninstalled my ATI Catalyst drivers to install the Omega drivers and somehow the Omega driver installation fucked up the video cards' ability to display the desktop at Windows startup.

So much for closed source being easier to program drivers.  I've never had that problem under Linux.

 

quote:
 No problem, I booted with F8 and went to the boot with last known good configuration option and boom my probelm was solved.

Never crashed so I have no Idea.

 

quote:
 I made the computer freeze once when I tried to take this puppy up to 3.32ghz without upping the voltage.

I have made XP pro crash in my University.  I was just using it. Word prossessing.

 

quote:
The only prebuilt OEM computer I would ever buy or consider buying would be an Apple Macintosh because Apple does not skimp on thier parts(hench why Macs are more expensive than OEM PC's) and Apple doesn't overload thier systems with useless apps that continuosly run in the background hogging the ram and CPU cycles. Apple actually makes a great quality computer.

I thought to myself that If I get a brand new computer I'd go with OSX.  Its just easir to maintain IMO

 

quote:
To Solaris - My bad. I didn't notice you were canadian. When I talk about prices I'm always talking about prices in USD. Technically it may cost mroe in Canadian dollars but the canadian dollar value isn't quite as high as the American dollar so in the end the trade is about equal.

No problem.  I've been shopping for scanners and stuff but most stores are in USD so I have to calculate it pluse add on any taxes.  Thats another reason it would cost more here.  We have the PST GST.  I discovered yesterday that we have the RST!  

I always make a joke and make that last one up.  I didn't know that was actualy there. Imagine that!

[Aloone_Jonez]

I know there are distros out there that will boot from one floppy, you seem to have missed the point, you can't say that Windows is bloated and Linux isn't, you can boot up windows (in DOS mode) of a floppy.

I bet you can't boot Linux of a floppy and get a fully functional desktop!

Nice one -=Solaris.M.K.A=-, your the first person here has posted something I mainly agree with. I don't know about the Tolling bit, though I don't want to go there!

I hope I'm not Trolling, by saying I agree with you am I?

Well I do agree with you, all but for one thing of course:

 

quote:
? You don't every driver is built into the kernel unlike windows where you need an install file and even then it might not work! You don't need to 'tweek' anything. Everything is setup right from the install! Including any software you would like. You do not need to compile anything. It is as simple as installing an RPM through APT-Get and synaptic. Its just a couple of clicks thats it. It will put it ion the menu and everything for you!

Yes you do!
http://forum.microsuck.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=002568

The installer didn't work for me either, it was even worse for me, my leximark printer scanner http://www.linuxprinting.org has a driver but it dosn't scan.

The video driver is fucktardly slow, the graphics draw faster on Xppe than on linux.

I had to compile loads of shit to try to get my modem working, I failed.

I would say that having the drivers kept seporate from the kernel is a good thing!

What can you do, if you fuck your kernel up installing shit drivers?

There's no guarantee that you drivers will work at all!

At least in Winbloze they work even if they are buggey.


Viper:

 

quote:
Another reason why I support MS is for the same reason why Apple supporters support Apple. I like thier products, and I know that it takes 1 company to control a successful OS. Why in the hell do you think Linux has the lack of drivers, games and professional quality apps? IT is because there are so many different distros of it and no sane company is going to spend all of that development time to make thier stuff compatible with all of the fucking distros.

I agree with you, Linux lacks standards.

Standards are great!

M$ standards just happen to sod-arse!

M$ can always alter them, thus tipping the snooker table in their favour!

It's obvious why you support them and there's nothing worng with this, you depend on M$ for you income.

Just so long as you (or the company you work for) don't follow their business practices.

I hope you don't price your competitors out of business!

You don't prey on the the stupid, do you?

M$
"Windows needs to be shut down to protect your computer"

In some computer store:

Stupid customer: What computer do I need for my son to do his school work on? The old one is broken it caught a virus, I spoke to a very helpful technician earlier on today.

She said: "you need a new one I can't let you keep the old one, its contagious and it's against UK law for me to let you keep it!"

She was very nice. She even arranged for a nice man to collect the old one for disposal!

Sales assistant:
Oh yes, she's my wife, and that "nice man" is my brother, it's nice to work with your family.

You need a super duper all singing and dancing;
3GHz dual processor
raid 200GB hard disk
2GB of ram
36" plasma display
460W psu
1024 DPI colour laser printer
All the Microsoft software of your dreams

Stupid customer:
Oh Microsoft software, it must be good then!
Is it turbo charged?
Will he be able to access the Internet?
I hope he doesn't look at porn!
I hope he won't fall ill from any computer viruses!

Sales assistant:
Don't worry it comes with the latest Microsoft  anti-virus software along Microsoft Windows XP, this also includes the latest Microsoft parental controls.

Stupid customer:
Wow, how much will it cost?

Sales assistant:
I'm sure that we can come to some arrangement.

Now that would be evil, I have known numerous people who have been sacked form jobs at Computer stores because they disagreed with their sales policy.

They sold far less PCs than their colleges but their returns were far less. So much so, that they actually made the store more money, as the bulk of the Store's budget was squandered on returns.

One day I will visit one of these stores and act dumb, then tell them to "shuv thier hardware up their arse, I've recorded the whole fucking conversation."

I could ramble on for Infinitum!

PS
Sorry for the late editing of this post, it was made in haste, just before I had to leave for a few days.

[ July 11, 2004: Message edited by: Aloone ]

[insomnia]

quote:Originally posted by Aloone:
I know there are distros out there that will boot from one floppy, you seem to have missed the point, you can't say that Windows is bloated and Linux isn't, you can boot up windows (in DOS mode) of a floppy.

I bet you can't boot Linux of a floppy and get a fully functional desktop!

Some of them are FULL distros.
What does a UI have to do with this.
You don't seem to understand any point.

Don't blame a program for your own stupidity.
Stay with Windows if that's what you want.

[solarismka]

quote:Yes you do!
http://forum.microsuck.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=002568

The installer didn't work for me either, it was even worse for me, my leximark printer scanner http://www.linuxprinting.org has a driver but it dosn't scan.

But just like that person.  He has made apost here for help and there is a possible solution.  Unlike windows, even though you have the correct driver install it still does not work or does not work correctly.  Didn't viper just state that sometimes bad hardware screws up xp?  Well considering those driver installs are ment to work with XP and the hardware itself is built for XP so then why do the drivers not work for XP?

Using that same hardware one can get linux working and if not there is help.  You don't have to get expensive hardware just to satisfy XP.


   

quote:
The video driver is fucktardly slow, the graphics draw faster on Xppe than on linux.

I find that quite different. Again I had to wait well over 15 minutes just for the start button to pop open.  Forget launching a program!

I've never had that happen with linux.

   

quote:I had to compile loads of shit to try to get my modem working, I failed.

Did you check if it was a winmodem?  Most winmodems do not work with anything other than windows.  All other thinks like printers, graphics, sounds and output devices work great.

   

quote:
I would say that having the drivers kept seporate from the kernel is a good thing!

As a sys admin and someone who has repaired machines I'd say no.  All I want to do is pop the CD in and be done with it.  Not look around the net trying to find the correct drivers and after that they still fail.

   

quote:
What can you do, if you fuck your kernel up installing shit drivers?

Well the drivers are built into the kerenl so how could you fuck it up?  if the driver IS separate like nivida then an sh filr does everything for you automatically.  The kernel doesn't do anything.

The only way you could fuck it up is by compliling a completely new customised kernel that didn't come with the distro and why would anyone do that unless they are a tester for kernel.org?

   

quote:
There's no guarantee that you drivers will work at all!

Definnatly not in windows.


   

quote:
At least in Winbloze they work even if they are buggey.

Well actualy they don't I've seen driver installs mess up the OS so badly that you have to re install everything and that is quite a pain.


   

quote:
I agree with you, Linux lacks standards.

Standards are great!

I disagree with you on that.  Because the kerenl is generic and the way the OS is built a program that works for one distro can easily be used on another, infact different versions of distros.  In windows this cannot be done due to the fact that every application in windows uses a different protocal.  What would work in XP home might not work in XP pro and definnatly will not work on win 2k and 2k3!

   

quote:
M$ standards just happen to sod-arse!

If they have standards.  If they had then there programs would at least be bacwards compatible and even the applications themselves can be used with the same app but an older version. M$ Office 97 vs M$ Office 2k3.

   

quote:
M$ can always alter them, thus tipping the snooker table in their favour!

Or not.  I know lots of people that are looking to the alternatives simply because One version of M$ office simply does not work with the other and I'm not even talking about the OS here.

just my two cents

EDIT   rotocal -> I ment standard.      

[ July 09, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]

[ July 09, 2004: Message edited by: -=Solaris.M.K.A=- ]

[hm_murdock]

Aloone, shut up. Just go back to using Windows. It's obviously what you want to do. There's no shame in it, and there's nothing wrong with it. I won't say you're a bad person for giving up on Linux. It isn't for everybody.

Stop trying with it, and come back in another year or so when it's improved even more and is even more perfect.

[Aloone_Jonez]

 Jimmy, that's clearly the most intelligent post you've made so far, I don't really want to use Windows     but I have no choice, as Linux doesn't support my hardware well enough to make it's adoption worth the effort. I could also bitch on a lot more about my digital camera not working with Linux, and yes I have searched for a driver.

Linux seems to be a good OS, perhaps I'm just unlucky, I've seen it run well on friends computers, they don't seem to be able to help me either.

As for the bloatware argument Linux, can be bloated if not even more so than Winbloze. However the good thing about Linux (and I'm sure I've said this before), is that it's open source. If you find it too bloated, you can shift the shit and recompile, thus numerous compact distributions have appeared.

The reason for my posts in this section is I hate people spreading fud, Windows doesn't have to be bloated. You can install older versions and still use new software. Win95 isn't as bloated as Xpee, and providing you install some library you can still install and use the latest version of openoffice.

I know this is no reason for saying Windows isn't bloated, Win95 can hardly be considered a functional OS if indeed it is functional at all. ( you could say this about all forms of Winbloze    )

I bet the cheap cut down version of Xpee sold in India is far less bloated. I would love to get my hands on this, obliviously I would have to tweak things and add UK keyboard drivers and language packs but I'm sure this can be done. The EU might even rule that M$ will have to sell this in the UK too, and even if they don't there's always file share.

You people are lucky to get Linux working so well, I know you think I'm a thickshit for failing so miserably, I don't give a fuck, I bet you couldn't get Linux to work properly on my hardware, not without writing drivers anyway. I know this is a common problem, a friend of mine had to return to Winbloze (dual boot) just to setup his digital camera.

I know some of you find it hard to believe that Linux runs slower than Xpee on my system, I find it hard to believe that Xpee runs so slow on your system, it's true though some Windrivers suck and some Lindrivers also suck. I suppose it's easer to fix the Lindrivers though, the Windriver for my graphics card just happens to be better.

Linux is defiantly better than Winbloze, and it is improving. I have located a driver for my Cannon LBP-660 printer. I'm not going to bother use it though, maybe one fine day I will return to Linux, that is when it fully supports my hardware.

[solarismka]

.

 

quote:
As for the bloatware argument Linux, can be bloated if not even more so than Winbloze.

I don't buy that argument since KDE can run on 24 mb of ram where as XP can't even run at 500mb's of ram.


 

quote:
The reason for my posts in this section is I hate people spreading fud,

I agree i'm fedup of the FUD also!


 

quote: Windows doesn't have to be bloated.

You cannot get rid of IE or the GUI in windows since EVERYTHING is intergrated into everything else

 

quote:
 You can install older versions and still use new software.

Actualy no.  If you use Office XP or some buisness app that was made for 2k3 for example.  It will not work for windows 95!

 

quote:
 Win95 isn't as bloated as Xpee, and providing you install some library you can still install and use the latest version of openoffice.

True you can use Open Source apps on all windows OS'es but trying to use a normal windows application that was made by M$ deems to be incompatible.


 

quote:
I know this is no reason for saying Windows isn't bloated, Win95 can hardly be considered a functional OS if indeed it is functional at all.

Even though Win95 is less stable.  The security aspect and usability is no different from XP.


 

quote:

 ( you could say this about all forms of Winbloze     )

True!

 

quote:
I bet the cheap cut down version of Xpee sold in India is far less bloated.

I've heard now that M$ is not going to sell such an OS.  I have friends there so maby i'll ask them or something.

[hm_murdock]

quote:Jimmy, that's clearly the most intelligent post you've made so far, I don't really want to use Windows but I have no choice, as Linux doesn't support my hardware well enough to make it's adoption worth the effort. I could also bitch on a lot more about my digital camera not working with Linux, and yes I have searched for a driver.

Digicams seem to be a sticking point, because so many companies cheap out and don't use standard interfaces like USB Mass Storage.

 

quote:Linux seems to be a good OS, perhaps I'm just unlucky, I've seen it run well on friends computers, they don't seem to be able to help me either.

Which honestly is a big issue to me... the system needs to be greatly simplified in the respect of hardware troubleshooting.

 

quote:As for the bloatware argument Linux, can be bloated if not even more so than Winbloze. However the good thing about Linux (and I'm sure I've said this before), is that it's open source. If you find it too bloated, you can shift the shit and recompile, thus numerous compact distributions have appeared.

You don't even need to recompile. I'm running Red Hat 9 with X11, KDE, Gnome, and all the internet goodies I need to run my website in 700MB of HD space.

 

quote:The reason for my posts in this section is I hate people spreading fud, Windows doesn't have to be bloated. You can install older versions and still use new software. Win95 isn't as bloated as Xpee, and providing you install some library you can still install and use the latest version of openoffice.

Which honestly is quite amazing. As different as all the releases of Windows and NT are, they're still fully interoperable. 95 also does an admirable job of supporting hardware as new as about three years ago, since driver publishers were too lazy to update to Windows Driver Model, and kept using Windows 9x drivers.

 

quote:I know this is no reason for saying Windows isn't bloated, Win95 can hardly be considered a functional OS if indeed it is functional at all. ( you could say this about all forms of Winbloze )

Win95 is quite functional. It was, IMHO the best 9x release of all. It was small (~50-75MB), simple (no shitty Windows 98 web browser), fast, and more stable than its derivatives. 98 was mediocre, and Me was horrid, although, like any OS, they could be made to be great with only a little work.

 

quote:I bet the cheap cut down version of Xpee sold in India is far less bloated. I would love to get my hands on this, obliviously I would have to tweak things and add UK keyboard drivers and language packs but I'm sure this can be done. The EU might even rule that M$ will have to sell this in the UK too, and even if they don't there's always file share.

I wonder about language support, though.

 

quote:You people are lucky to get Linux working so well, I know you think I'm a thickshit for failing so miserably, I don't give a fuck, I bet you couldn't get Linux to work properly on my hardware, not without writing drivers anyway. I know this is a common problem, a friend of mine had to return to Winbloze (dual boot) just to setup his digital camera.

I'd like to take a stab at it anyway :-D

 

quote:I know some of you find it hard to believe that Linux runs slower than Xpee on my system, I find it hard to believe that Xpee runs so slow on your system, it's true though some Windrivers suck and some Lindrivers also suck. I suppose it's easer to fix the Lindrivers though, the Windriver for my graphics card just happens to be better.

Unaccelerated video on any OS sux.

 

quote:Linux is defiantly better than Winbloze, and it is improving. I have located a driver for my Cannon LBP-660 printer. I'm not going to bother use it though, maybe one fine day I will return to Linux, that is when it fully supports my hardware.

Good!

[ July 12, 2004: Message edited by: JimmyJames: GenSTEP Founder ]

[mobrien_12]

You can boot an entire, working linux system off of floppys.  There are much more functional than an MS-DOS boot floppy.

Linux can be booted into a working GUI desktop with Knoppix and GNOPPIX.

Linux can run as small as you want because it is modular.  You want slim speed instead of lots of features?  Instead of KDE or GNOME use blackbox or Windowmaker.  Use abiword or LyX instead of OpenOffice.  Run firefox or lynx instead of mozilla.

YOU have the choice.  MS won't give you the choice.

[Zombie9920]

Windows ME w/a GUI installation in 16MB.  

http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/00/05/22/000522oplivingston.xml

[Aloone_Jonez]

$25 Fuck that, I don't see why you should have to buy any extra software to run Windows. This should be built into the operating system, along with all the necessary anti-virus and firewall crap.

By the way Windows doesn't cost me a penny to run, my ISP now provides a firewall as part of the service and I use the AVC free anti-virus software.

Now I've got some of you to agree with me on Linux it got me thinking, I don't plan to give up completely. I will still continue to play with Linux a bit, even though I'm not seriously considering it as a viable alternative to Windows. (well not for me at least) I will do this, as I've said before, when Linux supports my hardware well enough.

There is obviously a lot more to learn about Linux, it would be dimwitted to close my mind to Linux. Recently, I have managed to regain at least some interest in computing.

By the way, how do the drivers built into the Linux kernel work?

When you select the options in the setup program is the kernel compiled according to your preferences?

What happens if you need to change anything?

With my winmodem driver the installation script asked me to install the development tools together with the kernel source, is this normal?

Another thing I have to bitch about is what's with all these different desktops, software written for one often doesn't work in a different desktop, isn't this a standards problem?

Sometimes I don't even get any error message, for example I boot into Gnome, and click on Kword, fuck all happens. Does this sound a bit strange to you?