Free Speech

[creedon]

I believe in free speech; it's a fundimental right. In my country (USA), there have been many people who have suffered greatly for it.
It's also one of the easiest rights to abuse; the practice of trolling is a perfect example.  It strikes me that this forum has an abundance of individuals who feel that they must defend their position towards the operating systems that Microsoft licenses, I don't have a problem with that, everyone is entitled to their opinion- my opinion is that Linux is superior to the Microsoft closed-source system.  I do think that the way a number of these people present their arguments is objectionable; on that basis, I'll be more than happy to respond in kind; if someone presents a reasonable argument, in a reasonable way I'm happy to engage in discourse, however, if someone merely rants about Linux being useless, or just engages in namecalling, I have no problem with giving it back.
The problem lies with how serious the computing community will regard this forum; if they see a group that avocates Linux in a reasonable manner is one thing, if they see a bunch of name-calling idiots, they'll never take us seriously, and that's not acceptable to me.  I believe in open-source.  I think that Microsoft is not working in the best interest of their users, and I want to see that change.  The fact that the federal government agrees with me gives me hope, but money talks, and Microsoft has lots of money.  
The best hope of the Linux (and open-source) community is forums like this one, where people who use and like Linux can express opinions in an open forum, and those who choose to use the Microsoft system can express their views in a reasonable manner.
This post is just to put all the chronic trolls on notice: say what you want to,I'm not responding anymore.  I've made my position clear; I don't need to defend it.

[Sleeping Dog]

HERE, HERE!

I strongly second those sentiments....well expressed and strongly endorsed!

Sleeping Dog

[Refalm]

You've got a point there Creedon... but some people are just impossible (I'm not calling any names [cough]Windows XP User #5225982375 and Flaming Bag of Poo[/cough])

Some haven't tried anything else than Windows yet and begin to rant everything about anything else than Windows.

I'm guessing that only 30% of all Windows users that come here aren't Bill Gates' *ss-kissers... to those people, we can have a good discussion about the advantiges and disadvantiges of Microsoft's products, instead of a flame war.

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: Refalm ]

[creedon]

quote:Originally posted by Refalm:
You've got a point there Creedon... but some people are just impossible (I'm not calling any names [cough]Windows XP User #5225982375 and Flaming Bag of Poo[/cough])

Some haven't tried anything else than Windows yet and begin to rant everything about anything else than Windows.

I'm guessing that only 30% of all Windows users that come here aren't Bill Gates' *ss-kissers... to those people, we can have a good discussion about the advantiges and disadvantiges of Microsoft's products, instead of a flame war.

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: Refalm ]

Oh, I wouldn't want to single out any SPECIFIC INDIVIDUALS, but I agree with you; if some one has a valid argument, I have no problem; it's the trolling idiots who actively try to make people angry, and get into childish name-calling exchanges that give the impression that Linux users are a bunch of immature fools.  It's been my experience that most Linux users are quite intelligent; they have the resources to use an (admittedly) more difficult operating system, and they choose to do it becaue they like it.  I can't understand the mental process of a troll who thinks that, by insulting someone, they can change that persons mind; but that's not my concern, I'm worried about the perception of the Linux community; I don't want it to be seen as not serious about Linux/open-source.

[Sleeping Dog]

.......Which begs the question......"Why would such big Windows fans find it necessary to spend so much time in a UNIX/LINUX forum other than to attempt creating discord?"

Enquiring minds want to know....

Sleeping Dog

[creedon]

quote:Originally posted by Sleeping Dog:
.......Which begs the question......"Why would such big Windows fans find it necessary to spend so much time in a UNIX/LINUX forum other than to attempt creating discord?"

Enquiring minds want to know....

Sleeping Dog

.....Any takers?????

[Sleeping Dog]

I, for one, am in favour of henceforth simply ignoring the benal and inane spewtem that issues forth from said rectal minds.  Accordingly, if we all ignore them, then maybe they will get the hint and go away....permanently.

Sleeping Dog

[Calum]

hear hear. However i will unleash the fury of my temper from time to time, although it is almost natural to ignore most of the morons these days (and morons come in waves, are we seeing a lul currently?)

[creedon]

quote:Originally posted by Calum:
hear hear. However i will unleash the fury of my temper from time to time, although it is almost natural to ignore most of the morons these days (and morons come in waves, are we seeing a lul currently?)

You know what Calum?  That's exactly what the trolls want; that way they can discredit the community; I'd like nothing better than to really blast some of them, but if we ignore them, we're the better for it, after all, they're just trolls, right?  Keep that Gaelic temper in check, I'll keep my Irish down, and if every other good Linux advocate on this forum does the same, the trolls will get tired of being ignored and go find another place to play.

[choasforages]

i disagree, they willonly get worse, and not leave. atleast thats what my personal experiance tells me.

[lazygamer]

Well that's ok. Just as long as the windows zombies(not our offical mascot zombie) that show up say half-assed insults, not just retard "linux sux".

IE:Tux is a fecal mascot who transforms into a half-man half-penguin...
(I'll let you remember the rest)  

Oh god when those zombies say shit like that, I laugh my ass off!

[dbl221]

I thought the true test of someone's tollerance and
acceptance of free speach was their ability to
tollerate trolls and others who express ideas
they find objectionable.

If you truely support free speach you will happily
and loudly support the right of those whose ideas you
find objectionable to express their ideas.

[beltorak0]

dbl, you must be joking.  For some ape that has managed to type, you are obviously too stupid to own a computer if you can't get windows to run for endless days without crashing.  My advice to you is: return your computer, don't worry about a refund (you wouldn't know what to do with the money anyway) and by a rubber bouncing ball.  This should provide an adaquate challenge for your current intellectual skills.

disclaimer
I don't mean that, dbl: I just want to illustrate the type of posts (and those that make them) that we are saying don't belong in this forum.  They do not add any thing of value to the forums.  Neither advocacy of non-M$ products, defence of m$ products, nor any other intellegent point.  They seek only to get a rise out of the non-m$ community.  I will name a name: XP User ############ (whatever).  I will also refernece a few linux users doing the same type of post (usually in response to XP User).  Stop it.  Read "Animal Farm".  Re-read the last paragraph.  Think.

I am not advocating banning or censoring such posts, but a social means of dissuading the posters from posting such tripe.  I believe is free speach, and the collorary: the freedom not to speak.  The point is that we, as members of the forum, are desiring to agree on a way to uniformly deal with such posters: not answering.  Unless there are actual points in the post which must be defended.  Keep the defensive statements intellegent.

-t.

[voidmain]

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with any of the suggestions mentioned.  We've tried a little of everything and nothing seems to work.  And as far as free speech goes, if this were a government funded board I would agree with it.  And I agree with it in general even on this privately owned board, with only one exception.  I can handle Zombie who actually speaks with intelligence most of the time, I can even handle RRS who rarely speaks with intelligence, but XP Luser just babbles and wastes bits on the server's hard drive. In fact if it weren't for him, this thread wouldn't exist. I think if anyone deserves exorcism it would be XP Luser.

[beltorak0]

I think you're right, but i also think the problem is that only a little of the solutions have been tried.  Would drive a tank into war if the welders only welded a little bit of armor on?  Any protocol becomes pointless if it is inconsistent or incomplete.

-t.