OK *nix heads, what should I do?

[Laukev7]

quote:Originally posted by Darth Jimmy James:
IM me sometime, Laukev, if ya got an AIM client

I don't have an AIM client yet, as I use Yahoo. You probably use iChat, so you don't have to deal with AOL crap (I loathe them ever since they made those bigoted anti-French jokes). Is there any good AIM client you could recommend me other than AOL's client (cross-platform if possible)? I really don't know much about IM clients, as I have rarely used them until now.

Edit: I don't mind using their protocol, as long as I don't get brainwashed like the AOLers after prolonged exposure to AOL paraphernalia.

[ October 20, 2003: Message edited by: Laukev7: Has half Macman's posts ]

[hm_murdock]

on most platforms, there's gaim, and Windows has Trillian... it's pretty decent. I know there's others.

versiontracker.com has quite a few. I'd say gaim, though. it seems to be a good cross-platform client

[suselinux]

quote:Originally posted by Darth Jimmy James:
Linux is not a desktop system.

'nuff said.

it's great for servers, but forget it on the desktop

Oh FUCK no, you didn't say that.

  :mad:    :mad:    :mad:  

give it three years max, and Linux will have a greater desktop market share.

[ October 20, 2003: Message edited by: suselinux ]

[preacher]

quote:Originally posted by Darth Jimmy James:
I say Be OS. Coming from Macs, you'll love the UI. It's also faster even than Linux. Easier to install and configure.

No Mac GUI ive ever seen is faster than my linux box with BlackBox.

Oh you are probably referring to KDE or gnome. Since they arent integral parts of linux, they cant be judged as such.

[hm_murdock]

quote: Oh FUCK no, you didn't say that.

 

give it three years max, and Linux will have a greater desktop market share.

Linux is not a desktop system.

'Nuff said.

I don't give a fuck about three years in the future, besides, I've been hearing that same tired rhetoric now for ages. Give it up. Home users don't give a fuck about Linux because it doesn't work for them. Make it work for them and they will. I've yet to see any progress.

 

quote: No Mac GUI ive ever seen is faster than my linux box with BlackBox.

Oh you are probably referring to KDE or gnome. Since they arent integral parts of linux, they cant be judged as such.

BlackBox isn't integral, either. And they all ride on X11... and X11 SUCKS ASS. What does it take to get that through?!?

And you've obviously never used any of the older Macs. Let's see your precious Linux haul a full-color GUI around on a 16 MHz 68030

[preacher]

quote:Originally posted by jeffberg: Mac Capitalist:
And the GUI won't crash on you like X11 does every 5 minutes.

Well look at this. It is obvious you know nothing about the stability of X. X-Windows almost never crashes on me, and i have kept X windows up for over 100 days before with constant use and no problems. You just keep telling yourself that BeOS is better than linux and I will keep laughing.

http://hackthiscomputer.cjb.net/morethan5minutes.png

[preacher]

quote:Originally posted by Darth Jimmy James:


BlackBox isn't integral, either. And they all ride on X11... and X11 SUCKS ASS. What does it take to get that through?!?

And you've obviously never used any of the older Macs. Let's see your precious Linux haul a full-color GUI around on a 16 MHz 68030

I never said blackbox was integral. My point was that with a light weight window manager, and not a resource hog like KDE or Gnome, the gui is much quicker. Besides this argument is linux versus mac, it is linux versus BeOS.

Right now linux is far better supported than BeOS. In fact OpenBSD and NetBSD are far better supported than BeOS. BeOS probably doesnt have much of a future right now, this might change if *nix users give up their better supported more updated OS and embrace BeOS head on, however I dont see this happening.

This comes back to whether windows users should try linux or any other alternative operating system. The truth is that you will end up with less support, less software, less knowledge about the OS when you sway away from the mainstream. This alone scares people away from trying a new and different OS. Me telling you not to use BeOS for the same reason that people told me not to use linux would be wrong. Use what you wish to use.

[Duo Maxwell]

quote:Originally posted by Darth Jimmy James:


Duo, if these guys haven't scared you off, IM me man... murdock160 on AIM. I'll talk to you straight, and we'll get something picked out.

And if you'll let me borrow Deathscythe, I'll end this petty squabbling!      

What me scared off!? I wouldn't dream of it. I'm The Great Destroyer, how could a guy with a Piloting handle like that be scared off?

Sure You can barrow the Death Scythe Hell, I'm still using the original, and I'm looking for spare parts on the Custom.

But all that aside, The specs I have to work with are an old cartage type Pentium 2 300Mhz, which piss me the hell off since I just got through putting a an 800Mhz P2 in place of a 700Mhz P2 in another cousins computer and kept the 700 thinking I could use it. 128Mb-O-ram and winblow$ says the drive is a mere 2Gb. So will what you guys have been suggesting work on this very meager setup? I cant get a mouse to work on it or can remember how to erase a win98 install, but I'm kinda proficient at running winblow$ with just a keyboard.

At the very least I got a free IBM 2 button=scroll wheel optical mouse. works great under OS X!

[suselinux]

web page


web page

Chew on these Mactards  

[Laukev7]

quote:Originally posted by ThePreacher:


Well look at this. It is obvious you know nothing about the stability of X. X-Windows almost never crashes on me, and i have kept X windows up for over 100 days before with constant use and no problems. You just keep telling yourself that BeOS is better than linux and I will keep laughing.

http://hackthiscomputer.cjb.net/morethan5minutes.png

Strange. BeOS was the first alternative OS I've used on the x86 (not including Mac emulation), and I liked it much more than any Linux distro I used subsequently.

I have not had any X11 crash either, but it certainly isn't the greatest GUI manager out there. I've heard of many Linux users much more experienced than I am who hate X11, so I suspect it's not only a question of savoir faire. Even with an extensive knowledge of X11, it remains clunky and tedious to configure. Just because you know how to use X11 doesn't mean it is an enjoyable experience.

I don't know exactly why you consider Linux better than BeOS, assuming you have even used the latter. It has the same command line interface as Linux (although not fullscreen), and the configuration files work the same. Many of the major free/open source apps are available for BeOS. I haven't had any more crashes with BeOS than Linux, and as I said, if you really want to you can install X11 and Enlightenment, or any WM available for BeOS.

Edit: Damn, late again. Oh, well.

[ October 21, 2003: Message edited by: Laukev7: Has half Macman's posts ]

[Laukev7]

Mac OS X > BeOS > FreeBSD > Mac OS 9 > Linux > Windows NT/2000/XP > Windows 9x

[suselinux]

Originally posted by Darth Jimmy James:


suselinux, it's guys like Preacher who help me keep my faith in Linux. it's dipshits like you who make me hate it. fuck off you opinionated asswipe

Dipshit?

Opinionated?

Hey those were published findings, saying that Linux isn't a Desktop OS because it sucks is.

but rest assured that you do not make me hate Apple.

[insomnia]

quote:Linux is not a desktop system.

Are just trolling, or do you mean this.
All big distros are Desktop-Linux.
The desk on my Slackware box is faster than any Mac, Windows or BeOS Desk(and a lot more configurable).  

 

quote:The issue here is not support.

Support is always an issue, ask any person who's building something new, how inportant it is.

 

quote: Many people more knowledgeable than I am hate X11. It's tedious to configure and dated. It's not for nothing that Apple, BeOS and AtheOS, don't use it by default. There are even community projects like Fresco are aiming to offer a better alternative to X11.

I find all these "more knowledgeable" people  stupid.
X11 is more configurable than anything.
I still haven't read any argument against it on this board. "X11 is old" is NOT an argument. It's not even old.

 

quote:You're not looking for an OS to run, HE IS. If you can't offer useful suggestions, then fuck off.

And start lying like you?
You don't know shit about computing.

 

quote:You're right. i don't.

Than stop lying about it!

 

quote:I don't understand how a tired ass, outmoded, low-tech, last-generation, dead-end turd like X11 still hangs around.

You don't undestand anything about it.

 

quote:And what the fuck does your statement mean anyway? Because he states that Be's framework is better (look at the tech specs... IT IS), and that you can install an X11 layer on Be... he "doesn't understand"...

Look at ALL the "tech specs" (...if you can...).

 

quote:
One question...

DID YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT HE SAID?

I don't believe you did. Every other graphics framework is better than X11, even GDI. Yes, WINDOWS XP HAS A BETTER GRAPHIC FRAMEWORK.

One question for you...
IS THAT A JOKE OR DO YOU KNOW THAT LESS.

 

quote:And the GUI won't crash on you like X11 does every 5 minutes.

That's plain wrong.
 
 

quote:Combined with its lack of response and visual cues as to when something is happening.

Again, that's plain wrong.


If you want to use BeOS, fine...
But why always these silly lies about Linux?

[hm_murdock]

quote: You don't undestand anything about it.

Oh yeah? Why don't you fucking tell me what's so great about it? What makes it so good? If it's so damn awesome, why did NeXT NOT USE IT, why did RISC OS NOT USE IT, why did Amiga NOT USE IT.

 

quote: I find all these "more knowledgeable" people stupid.
X11 is more configurable than anything.
I still haven't read any argument against it on this board. "X11 is old" is NOT an argument. It's not even old.

"more configurable" might have something to do with what's wrong with it. The damn thing is too hard for average people to set up.

And we know it's not "old", but it's TIRED.

 

quote: One question for you...
IS THAT A JOKE OR DO YOU KNOW THAT LESS.

Ha ha ha ha!! Jokes are funny! And that's not a joke... GDI is better than X11. GDI supports layering, limited alpha blending, and is tied to the kernel, meaning that it's part of the core system, not an afterthought.

 

quote: That's plain wrong.
 

Is it? Have you ever heard the phrase "Your mileage may vary"? I installed Linux on several machines... getting it up and running wasn't hard at all... but making it actually do anything was.

And don't give me the tired argument that "I need to learn more" because it's bullshit. Nobody's ever going to take your OS seriously if the learning curve involves buying a goddamn book.

 

quote: Again, that's plain wrong.

Prove it. In my opinion, X11 and nearly all GUI frameworks for it (GNOME, KDE, et cetera) lack quite a bit in informing the user of what's happening.

And if you can state your opinions as facts, then I will too. Because Linux doesn't work for what I need it to, it sucks.

That's what's so shitty about the arguments. Nearly all of them boil down to "well, Linux is better for what I do"... and therefore you believe that it's better for someone else... JUST BECAUSE YOU USE IT FOR SOMETHING.

I tried to like it, I really did, but all the stuff that I was told makes Linux so great was what made it so frustrating to use. I tried for a week to use my PC as a DHCP server with Linux (RH8) and COULD NOT. This was on top of X11 being a flaky ass bastard and not wanting to run more than half the time.

I restarted to XP, patched the bastard up, turned on Internet Connection Sharing, and ran it headless on my cable modem for two months... ZERO INFECTIONS OF ANYTHING. And that was during the period of all those worm attacks. Was I hurt by them? No.

Linux is great for people that know and care about UNIX. I know enough UNIX to get me around a shell window, to start and kill processes. But none of this matters. I run OS X, so all the UNIX shit can exist without me knowing or giving a shit, because I don't.

I think I can sum it up... I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT UNIX. All I care about... and all anybody, except obviously you guys... care about is using their computer. /etc, root access, X11 configuration, window managers, config files, fsck, interactive startup... NOBODY CARES.

As long as their computer works, that's what matters.

In my experience, Be just works. In my experience, Linux doesn't quite make it there. I don't care because I run an OS built on NeXTStep. NeXT/OS X does, always has, and always will kick the shit outta plain-vanilla UNIX and clones.

NEXTSTEP RULES

[Laukev7]

quote:All big distros are Desktop-Linux.

Linux distros can be used for the desktop. They're just not good at it. What can you expect when most Linux distros rip off the Windows interface, which isn't even a good desktop model in the first place?

The desk on my Slackware box is faster than any Mac, Windows or BeOS Desk

That explains why it takes me 5-10 seconds to open the trash can in KDE. Even on FreeBSD.

 

quote: (and a lot more configurable).  

If you can figure it out how to find, let alone edit the myriads of configuration files. Even through the graphical configuration panels it is a pain. And don't even start on installing other desktop environments. When the DE was not included with the distro, I've had to edit a files just to make the DE appear in the KDM/GDM menu! Linux may be theoretically more configurable, but its very tedious work.

 

quote: X11 is more configurable than anything.

That is, if you like spending hours editing configuration files. You can't configure X11 any more with the wizards (graphical or command line) than Aqua and others. And configuring X11, while possible, is a painful process, whether with wizards or config files.

 

quote: I still haven't read any argument against it on this board.

You mean like the fact that you have to open a wizard, and log off each time you want to change the resolution and colour settings without having the screen move all the tme?