Author Topic: OK *nix heads, what should I do?  (Read 2476 times)

Duo Maxwell

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #45 on: 21 October 2003, 22:46 »
So would you bickering twits stop bitchin at each other for a min and tell me if the OS your suggesting, Office app if you can and web browser will work with the specs I gave in my last post. I'm thinking Be will be the best for what I'm wanting, I'll try others when I can get another, much larger HD in there.

Know where I can get the old style drives that will still fit other than ebay?

slave

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #46 on: 21 October 2003, 22:54 »
OK, I think you people are entitled to use whatever OS you want, but honestly I can't take any more of this mindless X11/Linux bashing.  Time to disperse some lies!!

 
quote:
That explains why it takes me 5-10 seconds to open the trash can in KDE. Even on FreeBSD.


This is either a lie or you are using a year-old version of KDE.  Konqueror 3.1.4 loads in less than two seconda on my laptop from a cold start.

 
quote:
If you can figure it out how to find, let alone edit the myriads of configuration files. Even through the graphical configuration panels it is a pain. And don't even start on installing other desktop environments. When the DE was not included with the distro, I've had to edit a files just to make the DE appear in the KDM/GDM menu! Linux may be theoretically more configurable, but its very tedious work.


Oh where to begin.  Look, configureability doesn't mean something is hard to use.  If you want to actually *use* GNU/Linux, then use it.  Out of the box configurations usually work just fine.  The point he is trying to make is that Linux is capable of being configured in hundreds of more ways than OS X or Be OS could ever dream of doing.  It is one of the most flexible operating systems ever devised.

 
quote:
That is, if you like spending hours editing configuration files. You can't configure X11 any more with the wizards (graphical or command line) than Aqua and others. And configuring X11, while possible, is a painful process, whether with wizards or config files.


Please download the latest Fedora test core, or use SuSE Linux 8.2.  It is doubtful you will ever touch the XF86Config file because they both do a superb job of auto-detection.  Anyway, Fedora/Red Hat Linux has an easy GUI tool for changing your display settings such as video card driver, etc.

 
quote:
You mean like the fact that you have to open a wizard, and log off each time you want to change the resolution and colour settings without having the screen move all the tme?


In GNOME 2.4:

click the menu on the panel -> preferences -> screen resolution.  Adjust it.  You don't have to restart X (if you are using 4.3)  This is just as easy as Windows XP.  I admit, color settings require a logout, but it takes around 10 seconds to log in and out of X.

Now to comment on Jimmy James's comments:

 
quote:
"more configurable" might have something to do with what's wrong with it. The damn thing is too hard for average people to set up.


Please don't lie.  For the most part, using a modern desktop distribution like Red Hat or SuSE, it is easier to set up than Windows OR Mac OS X if you consider the wide amount of hardware it runs on.  It is amazing it detects things as well as it does.  Again, Red Hat comes with a graphical tool for you point-and-click nuts so you can easily choose your graphics settings.  How much easier do you want it?

 
quote:
Ha ha ha ha!! Jokes are funny! And that's not a joke... GDI is better than X11. GDI supports layering, limited alpha blending, and is tied to the kernel, meaning that it's part of the core system, not an afterthought.


First, all that stuff like alpha-blending and layering *will* be included soon in X.  However I think it is kind of needless, except where massive eye-candy is concerned.  Windows XP doesn't even make use of transparency in its default theme.  Oh, and GDI being tied to the kernel is a very bad thing.  Modular design will always be better.  When GDI crashes it brings the entire fucking system down.  Very bad, especially if you are running a server.  Being modular doesn't make X slow.  Warcraft III runs faster *emulated* on X with nvidia's drivers than my silly Windows XP installation runs it.  How about that?  I was doing remote desktop the other day on my LAN, and I accidentally ran Quake III, and I thought "OMG it's going to crash the computer", but lo and behold it loaded the thing and ran it, *remotely* at 15 fps.  Can *any* other graphics system claim such remote display capabilities out of the box???

 
quote:
Is it? Have you ever heard the phrase "Your mileage may vary"? I installed Linux on several machines... getting it up and running wasn't hard at all... but making it actually do anything was.


You know what, I'd like to see OS X or BeOS run on the wide range of hardware that Linux does and do half as good a job of autodetecting and configuring devices.

 
quote:
I tried to like it, I really did, but all the stuff that I was told makes Linux so great was what made it so frustrating to use. I tried for a week to use my PC as a DHCP server with Linux (RH8) and COULD NOT. This was on top of X11 being a flaky ass bastard and not wanting to run more than half the time.


Oh boo hoo.  Have you ever tried tldp.org??  Do you need wizards to lead you through everything?  Maybe you do, but it's not like it will hurt you to actually learn what's going on behind the scenes when configuring a DHCP server.

 
quote:
In my experience, Be just works. In my experience, Linux doesn't quite make it there. I don't care because I run an OS built on NeXTStep. NeXT/OS X does, always has, and always will kick the shit outta plain-vanilla UNIX and clones.


Yeah, the key word is "in your experience."


Linux, not NeXT is the master OS, know this.  It is not the product that makes it so good, it is the process.  Open collaboration and massive backing by large corporations such as IBM are catipulting Linux into the 21st century with more momentum than all other "alternative" OSes combined.  In four years Linux will have a greater desktop market share than Windows.  In ten more years it will be running on 98% of all computers, and in twenty years it will achieve self-awareness and begin programming itself.

Okay the last paragraph is just a joke, but you guys can take jokes right?

slave

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #47 on: 21 October 2003, 22:55 »
quote:
Originally posted by Duo Maxwell:
So would you bickering twits stop bitchin at each other for a min and tell me if the OS your suggesting, Office app if you can and web browser will work with the specs I gave in my last post. I'm thinking Be will be the best for what I'm wanting, I'll try others when I can get another, much larger HD in there.

Know where I can get the old style drives that will still fit other than ebay?



Here's an idea.  Try both Linux and Be OS and choose whatever one suits your needs best.   ;)

Laukev7

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #48 on: 21 October 2003, 23:20 »
quote:
This is either a lie or you are using a year-old version of KDE.  Konqueror 3.1.4 loads in less than two seconda on my laptop from a cold start.


No, I was using KDE 3.1. And admitedly, that's on a 1 GHz Pentium 3, but it's still quite long compared to BeOS on the same computer.

 
quote:
Look, configureability doesn't mean something is hard to use


I did not say that. My point was that it is a pain to customise Linux desktops to the extent proposed by Insomnia.

 
quote:
 The point he is trying to make is that Linux is capable of being configured in hundreds of more ways than OS X or Be OS could ever dream of doing.


Maybe because Linux is just a kernel. You could do the same thing with Darwin.

 
quote:
Please download the latest Fedora test core, or use SuSE Linux 8.2.  It is doubtful you will ever touch the XF86Config file because they both do a superb job of auto-detection.  Anyway, Fedora/Red Hat Linux has an easy GUI tool for changing your display settings such as video card driver, etc.


I have. I've used every SuSE Linux distro since 7.1, every Red Hat distro since 7.2 and every Mandrake distro since 7.2. You can configure the desktop, but anything beyond the GUI tools is tedious.

 
quote:
click the menu on the panel -> preferences -> screen resolution.  Adjust it.  You don't have to restart X (if you are using 4.3)  This is just as easy as Windows XP.  I admit, color settings require a logout, but it takes around 10 seconds to log in and out of X.


So it took 10 years to implement such a simple task in one particular DE, whereas all the other windowing interfaces have been doing as standard?

hm_murdock

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #49 on: 21 October 2003, 23:45 »
quote:
Please don't lie. For the most part, using a modern desktop distribution like Red Hat or SuSE, it is easier to set up than Windows OR Mac OS X if you consider the wide amount of hardware it runs on. It is amazing it detects things as well as it does. Again, Red Hat comes with a graphical tool for you point-and-click nuts so you can easily choose your graphics settings. How much easier do you want it?


Easier to set up than Mac OS X? lol

It's easier than booting from CD, running install, rebooting, using? No. Red Hat or SuSe are neither one easier to install than Mac OS X. There is NO configuration needed.

 
quote:
Oh boo hoo. Have you ever tried tldp.org?? Do you need wizards to lead you through everything? Maybe you do, but it's not like it will hurt you to actually learn what's going on behind the scenes when configuring a DHCP server.


Heh. I tossed Maya Learning Edition in the garbage because to use it, you have to read tutorials.

1) Who cares what's going on behind the scenes? It's supposed to work for me, not the other way around.

2) Why should I have to go find outside help to do something that I can do with ONE BUTTON in another OS? Mac OS X has one-button connection sharing. One-button NAT firewall activation.

Windows let me share my cable connection by selecting a check-box and clicking OK. And then it ran for two months... I then plugged a screen into it, ran a few updates, restarted, and it's run for another month flawlessly.

See, this is what I always say, and I always get flamed for saying it... nobody will use Linux until it's that easy. Just because something is open source doesn't mean it's guaranteed to win. People just don't care.

Now stop acting like Linux is infallable and perfect. It's just another UNIX clone. It's not for everybody, and it doesn't always work. I point to my classic saying...

Your Mileage May Vary
Go the fuck ~

xyle_one

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #50 on: 22 October 2003, 00:07 »
Nothing I have tried has been easier to use/setup than osX. NOTHING. Of course. I use osX for a desktop OS. For a server environment, i would use a linxu distro. Now, you can use most linux distros as a desktop os, its not like redhat or mandrake are really that hard. i am using my Red Hat install for office stuff and server stuff. No problem. It really depends on what you want to do with it. You want games? You want a webserver? You want a file server? Is this for school/work? It depends. Either way, i think you would be just fine with RedHat, Mandrake, or SuSE.

I suggest RedHat. It was super easy to install. Id say the easiest linux distro ive fucked around with. All of my "stuff" worked out of the box, scanner, camera, cd burner, and it even picked up my network and let me browse the other 2 machines without any configuration. RedHat has done a good job with keeping the UI consitent, and there are GUI tools for most things.

Oh yeah. RedHat is free-
http://www.linuxiso.org
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suselinux

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #51 on: 22 October 2003, 04:58 »
quote:
Originally posted by Duo Maxwell:
So would you bickering twits stop bitchin at each other for a min and tell me if the OS your suggesting, Office app if you can and web browser will work with the specs I gave in my last post. I'm thinking Be will be the best for what I'm wanting, I'll try others when I can get another, much larger HD in there.

Know where I can get the old style drives that will still fit other than ebay?



Manrake will take up about 1 maybe 1 1/2 Gigs (that includes about bazillion apps), you will get  Mozilla/Netscape for Web, Mozilla, or Evolution for Email, and OpenOffice for Word processing and everything else you would expect in an MS compatible office suite.

I don't know how big Be is but it should come with basically everything you need as well.

As for old drives just look in your local phone book for a used computer store, they should have some, but don't buy it unless they are willing to prove to you it actually works.

Laukev7

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #52 on: 22 October 2003, 06:01 »
quote:
So would you bickering twits stop bitchin at each other for a min and tell me if the OS your suggesting, Office app if you can and web browser will work with the specs I gave in my last post. I'm thinking Be will be the best for what I'm wanting, I'll try others when I can get another, much larger HD in there.

Know where I can get the old style drives that will still fit other than ebay?


Sorry about that, I got carried away. Anyway, BeOS should work well with your computer. It supports Mozilla, Firebird, Netpositive and Opera web browsers. As for word processors, you can get Abiword for free, or Gobe 2.0 (demo or paid). You'll find most of what you need on Bebits.

suselinux

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #53 on: 22 October 2003, 21:34 »
quote:
Originally posted by Laukev7: Has half Macman's posts:


Sorry about that, I got carried away..




Yeah me too :(

hm_murdock

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #54 on: 22 October 2003, 10:09 »
::looks around::

what?!? everybody looks at me like I should say I'm sorry or somethin'!

fuhgeddaboutit!

oh, what the hey. I'm sorry for bein' an insufferable asshole!
Go the fuck ~

Zombie9920

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #55 on: 22 October 2003, 13:45 »
quote:
Originally posted by Darth Jimmy James:
Linux is not a desktop system.

'Nuff said.

I don't give a fuck about three years in the future, besides, I've been hearing that same tired rhetoric now for ages. Give it up. Home users don't give a fuck about Linux because it doesn't work for them. Make it work for them and they will. I've yet to see any progress.



I have to agree with you. I've been hearing people say that Linux is going to take over soon since the mid/late 90's. To this day has it even came close to taking over? Nope.

You are absolutly right when you say Linux doesn't work well for most home users. Most home users have trouble operating Windows let alone Linux. Some people even think that Windows installers with configuration options are difficult to use. I'd hate to see those same people try to install something in Linux.

To this day, there aren't any GUI's Linux that I find appealing or attractive. Every GUI and every icon set for Linux just seems so generic looking if you ask me. I'm not overly impressed with the choice of fonts you get in most default Linux installs. When I install Linux I always install and use some of the MS fonts and some of the non-MS fonts that are installed with Windows. X11 is shit. Blackbox looks like ass. I've seen alot better black Visual Styles for XP(like the black version of Blackcomb Pro and the black version of Chrome 4 XP 2nd Generation).....however, I don't like black visual styles at all. Right now I'm using Chrome 4 XP 2nd generation...but I certainly am not using it's black version. I'm using the Blue w/Flag.  

Using Linux isn't only frustration, it can be annoying as well. 1 thing that I find annoying about Linux is when you want to view your drives/partation the it always takes a like 10-15 seconds to do so because the ignorant OS has to scan your floppy drive and CD/DVD drives to see if there is any media in it...and if there is media in it it has to completely scan the media for it's files. Why in the fuck should it pre-fetch data on my CD, DVD, floppy media when all I want to do is view contents on a hard drive partation? It should only access the floppy/CD/DVD drives if I open the mount point for the drive with the media. Even after it has pre-loaded the stuff once, if I close out the browser and go back to mount points again say 30 seconds later it has to pre-load everything again.

Even if there is no media in your removable drives Linux insists on scanning the drives for a bit. Why would it continue accessing a CD drive if there is no disc in it(and it should see that the 1st time it accessed the drive)? I'm assuming that Linux doesn't use cache. What is so hard about such a supposed advanced OS using drive cache?  

I have a huge list of Linux annoyances. I don't feel like typing them all up though. ;P

I think this is funny. Yesterday a friend of mine accidently booted into to Linux when he was using my computer. He called me in the room and he said, "What in the fuck is this shit?" He straight up said that it looked horrible(he is used to how nice I have Windows looking on this machine). He tried using it for a few minutes and he was lost. He said, "this system sucks man. It looks like shit and the way it works is retarded." "How do I get out of this shit and back into Windows? I want to play Blackhawk Down". Oh yeah! He also made a comment about the retarded startup sound that Linux played(KDE). He said that it sounded like something a weirdo would like. He booted into Mandrake 9.1.

Myself, I'd definatley recommend BeOS over Linux. Especially if you are already familiar with MacOS.

[ October 22, 2003: Message edited by: Viper ]


flap

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #56 on: 22 October 2003, 17:39 »
quote:
1 thing that I find annoying about Linux is when you want to view your drives/partation the it always takes a like 10-15 seconds to do so because the ignorant OS has to scan your floppy drive and CD/DVD drives to see if there is any media in it...and if there is media in it it has to completely scan the media for it's files.


Nothing like that happens to me. If anything that situation is more akin to Windows, because the "ignorant OS" auto-mounts every volume it has access to. It's probably automount doing that. I don't use automount because I don't like my OS behaving like windows and auto-mounting disks, or syncing floppy disks on every single write. Of course you can do that if you want under a Unix system; under Windows though you're just forced to.

 
quote:
I'm assuming that Linux doesn't use cache. What is so hard about such a supposed advanced OS using drive cache?


Of course it does.

 
quote:
I think this is funny. Yesterday a friend of mine accidently booted into to Linux when he was using my computer. He called me in the room and he said, "What in the fuck is this shit?" He straight up said that it looked horrible(he is used to how nice I have Windows looking on this machine). He tried using it for a few minutes and he was lost. He said, "this system sucks man. It looks like shit and the way it works is retarded." "How do I get out of this shit and back into Windows? I want to play Blackhawk Down". Oh yeah! He also made a comment about the retarded startup sound that Linux played(KDE). He said that it sounded like something a weirdo would like. He booted into Mandrake 9.1.


So what are you trying to say? That your friend is a cretin? That he judges an operating system as being "shit" on the basis that he is ignorant of how to use it? That he judges it on how it looks, as do you?
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xyle_one

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #57 on: 22 October 2003, 20:29 »
I actually enjoy using Linux. And making it look good wasn't difficult. Its a matter of taste. I do not think windows looks good. I think 2000s look is better than xps Luna scheme, again, that is a matter of taste. Above all, i dig aqua. But there is more to this than how something looks. Looks only take you so far, then you get old and noone likes you    .

I like using linux purely for the fact that i can do whatever i want with it. No restrictions. I can use it as a desktop os, and a server. With each release, the distros are becomming easier and easier to use, and are actually taking care of the end user by making it consistent visually, and offering gui tools to do most things. Windows is easy, yeah, and it can do most things. But i feel that it is mediocre. It does a half ass job, when it works. And people are okay with that. Im not. Ive become to accustomed to systems that work, like macosX and Linux.

Getting linux to work wasnt hard. I installed it, and im done. It works. Perfectly. Same with my mac. Of course, the g4 and jaguar are built for each other, so there is less room for error. With windows, even xp, i had to go download new drivers, and it couldnt even pick up my linux machine or my mac. Then I had to install more software, like office apps, web browsers, couldn't get rid of IE, or Media Player, or MSN Messenger, and couldn't change the theme easily. Then i had to run windows update, restart 4 times, then put the windows disc back in so i could install IIS. After all this trouble. It couldn't even read the ext3 disc in the machine. It saw a drive there, but couldnt mount it. Mandrake does that automatically. It sees an ntfs drive on the system, and you can mount it, with no hassle. Im going to stop here. Rambling is bad...

Zombie9920

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #58 on: 22 October 2003, 20:39 »
I do have to agree that Luna looks like shit. I can't stand looking at it just like how I can't stand looking at black themes, plain themes and bright colored themes.

I have done all kinds of things to Linux but no matter how hard I try I can't seem to get it to look as nice as I want it to look.

preacher

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OK *nix heads, what should I do?
« Reply #59 on: 23 October 2003, 13:51 »
Any OS that is used somewhere on the desktop is a desktop operating system. Saying that linux is not a desktop OS would be like saying that MSDOS is not a desktop OS. MSDOS had/has millions of desktop users long before there were such things as graphical interfaces. Linux has a graphical interface that is light years ahead of other graphical interfaces that were part of desktop operating systems, such as MSDOS with Windows 3.1. It is also more simplistic than Windows 3.1 was when it was released. Linux is indeed a desktop OS, but it is not yet on the level with Windows XP or Mac OS X for simplicity. I just wish to clear this up. Once again I will not insist that anyone uses linux, however I dont like to be judged as a fool because I dedicate my time to the OS.

[ October 23, 2003: Message edited by: ThePreacher ]

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