Anybody know about WinLinux?

[kjg]

Not the lindows - this one purports to have a complete Linux distro that installs without partitioning and can use Windows GUIs

http://www.winlinux.net/2001/features/

From their home page:

 

quote:
Linux is one of the most powerful systems you can have on your PC. Linux was made for the Internet by the Internet and it is a standard choice of Internet Service Providers around the world. Besides that, Linux is a full Open Source system that comes with a handful of applications, development tools, games, Internet applications and more.Click for additional features...

Why would you choose WinLinux?

All that power usually demands a complete reconfiguration of the software on your computer and that can be very difficult if you are not experienced with PC hardware and software. WinLinux is a complete Linux system and it is the only one that installs directly on your Windows PC just as any other application. Just point and click to set up.

One thing that looks attractive is that it says it can be installed on 500MG (that's a minimum, of course, but since I only have a 4 Gig TOTAL harddrive with about 1.7 gigs free... well, you get my point.

SEEMS like the perfect "transition" program... what's the catch? (OK, I've been known to be cynical sometimes.)

Has anybody heard anything - good or bad - about this?

Karen

[lu666s]

Kinda virtual machine layer. If you do not run NT/win2k/xpee, then this may be just the thing for you to get your feet wet. It does not use windoze GUI, though, it is a selfcontained OS that you run from within windoze. That may be a bit flaky, rather than the opposite when someone runs windoze on a vm from within linux.

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: lu666s ]

[voidmain]

I have heard of this one but I don't know of anyone who has actually used it.  I just browsed around their web site and I have a few thoughts on it:

• You can't get a free download of the distro and I'm not going to pay the $10 to download it.
• It appears to use UMSDOS and install right on your FAT partition.  It's been a few years since I did a UMSDOS install but there are problems with this type of installation, I personally would never use it.
• I assume it's stripped down version of RedHat 7.0 (since they say it is compatible with RedHat 7.0).
• The software is outdated: old Linux kernel, KDE 2.1 (2.2 has been out for a while and 3.0 should be out soon), StarOffice 5.2 (6.0 is out, and OpenOffice is the Open Source version), Gnome 1.2 (2.0 is out), XFree 4.0.3 (RedHat 7.2 comes with 4.1.0).
• How easy is it to upgrade? Looks like they only put out one release a year and I don't see anything about upgrading. Upgrading is easy on all the other distros.

Now the only thing I can see that would be different than any other distro would be the things I mention above and the fact that they have written a Windows installer program which is really no different than the Linux installer on any of the newer distros (actually it's much more limited).

I can see too many problems with it without even trying it.  I would suggest Mandrake far ahead of this and Mandrake won't cost you a penny.

P.S. I see there actually is a free download that they claim is a cut down version.  I have started a download and will attempt to install it and give you a better review.  This outta be good, I'll install it on my Win98 VMware session which is running under RedHat 7.2.

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]

[Calum]

It reminds me of the BeOS version for windows.
You install this version of BeOS, which sits there as an icon in windows, then when you run the program, all it does is kill windows dead, and loads BeOS.

[voidmain]

Yep, that's exactly what it is Calum.

Here are my test results:

Went to the WinLinux web site and filled in "Bill Gates" and "[email protected]" in the form so I could download the free cut-down version for free.  It was a single *.EXE file of about 180MB.  I clicked on it and it brought up a Windows installer and proceeded to do a basic UMSDOS installation just as I had suspected.  I was actually getting my hopes up as things seemed to be running pretty well and I thought that yes, this might be a good sampler.

It finishes installing the the packages in C:\Linux\winlinux and then popped up with a registration box where you again have to type in a name and email address so again I filled in Billy boys' info.  It just sat there for 30 seconds or so and then timed out and the installation exited. It did create the ICON on the desktop and the start menu with the appropriate  configuration utility (but you can't run the configuration utility without registering your name and email address).  

I realized that the reason it could not register is because I have outbound port 80 blocked at my firewall to force going through my proxy.  Now I'm thinking, there is no other Linux distro that I am aware of that forces you to give the distro maker any of your information so I began to get a bad taste in my mouth.

Ok, I decided to try it out without running the config utility so I just clicked on the WinLinux desktop ICON (which just bootstraps the kernel with LOADLIN.EXE, something I used to use years ago, nothing special).  Then I begin to see the familiar "RedHat" bootup sequence with the only difference being the red "RedHat" was changed to a yellow "WinLinux".  The other difference is the first time you boot it, it must set up the UMSDOS filesystem and install the KDE packages etc so the first boot will take a little while.  

Then it just brought me up to a console login prompt, no graphical login, but I expected that since I couldn't run the configuration utility to set up X.  So I stuck "root" in at the prompt with no password and was able to log in, create an ID etc.. It had no idea what my network card was and I tried to run xf86config to set up X but didn't have any luck on my first try so I just said that was enough for me.  Maybe I'll try again later by temporarily allowing outbound port 80.

So I have mixed emotions about whether to recommend someone else try.  As I said, I don't like having to give up any information to them to use a half baked product.  But if after entering that information if everything else went as smoothly as the initial setup it might be worth a try for those who just want a "taste" of Linux without repartitioning etc. I would assume you could install RedHat packages on this distro since it appears to actually be a stripped down RedHat.

Other things I can think of that might be better for just a sampler is install Mandrake or RedHat on a UMSDOS partition, it's the same thing without the Windows installer and without having to register.  And doesn't Mandrake have a version that you can install using a Windows based installer?

[ February 13, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]

[Centurian]

Hey Karen,

 

quote:Originally posted by Karen:

SEEMS like the perfect "transition" program... what's the catch? (OK, I've been known to be cynical sometimes.)

Has anybody heard anything - good or bad - about this?

WinLinux was my first step into Linux software. I bought WinLinux 2001 and found it a major waste of both my time and money. The distro was based on Redhat 5.2. The windows configuration program works fine the first time through it but if you should make a mistake you may as well remove WinLinux and reinstall because once configured the the configuration program won't change most of the settings a second time. Further WinLinux runs slower than windows. Additionally once Winlinux is installed DON'T run Windows defrag program EVER again on the drive it is installed on. If you do WinLinux instantly becomes garbage.

Fortunately for me I did not assume that all versions of Linux were crap just because WinLinux is crap. I am now running Mandrake 8.1 on a dual boot system with W98SE. I use W98 for games only. W98 does not even know that the internet is connected to it on my system.

Anyway if you want a very LIMITED GENERALIZED feel of linux with little or no control then go ahead and check out WinLinux. It will work but it does require alot of effort to make it work and keep it running. Basically IMHO Winlinux gives decent Linux distro's a bad name. The WinLinux website make you feel as if it is the perfect ticket to move away from Windows without really leaving it. WinLinux tries to put in all the bells and whistles of Linux without the underlying support leaving it unstable. A windows user who wants a first feel of Linux and tries WinLinux may assume that all Linux products are simular and that certainly is not in Linux's best interests. Hmmm wonder if Microsoft owns it.

You might try ZIPSlack it is a slackware distro that runs on a fat drive. It does not include any desktops or even Xwindows I don't think but it is a stable fully working distro. It will give you a much better feel for Linux than WinLinux offers.

[iancom]

It's not Linux, it obviously doesn't run the Linux kernel, but if you're stuck with Windows and really want to start learning about the power of real scripting in Bash, Perl etc before taking the plunge into Linux proper I can very highly recommend Cygwin.

http://sources.redhat.com/cygwin/

It free, installs on all x86 versions of Windows, doesn't need its own partition or file system, only takes up about 200MB and with a little experience can completely replace your Windows command/cmd shell and .bat/.cmd scripts with all the same functionality and a hell of a lot more...

It's not a replacement for the Windows GUI, and isn't intended to be, but after a couple of months using it as your command shell on Windows you'll feel an awful lot more confident about tackling a real Linux/Unix shell.

I still use it regularly on my servers that still run WinNT/2K for scripting, the invaluable access to the VIM text editor and use of tab-completion (which incidentally I was amazed to accidentally discover is now included by default in the otherwise serverly crippled WinXP shell).

[voidmain]

Yeah, MS is usually about 20 years behind on implementing command line stuff, and then the MCSEs think it's a hot new Microsoft innovation.  

[Calum]

i met a guy from NZ, and he told me about a program which you execute, and it kills your running OS and then boots from your Linux partition. In effect, this means you could leave the shortcut on yr desktop in Windows, and when you open it, it boots to whatever proper Linux you have installed, none of this Virtual Machine emulation, or dual application style Lindows/Winlinux stuff, a proper Linux on yr computer just like that.

He couldn't remember what it was called, except he thought it was called LinLoader. Now, the URL if ound for LinLoader was:

http://www.reinhouse.freeserve.co.uk/riscos/linloader/

Is this what he was referring to? anybody else heard of this program? sounds like it might be better than WinLinux, as you can have a real up to date Linux OS in yr box.

[voidmain]

Calum, I can't tell you about LinLoader, but I *can* tell you that "LOADLIN.EXE" will do exactly what you mention.

[kjg]

Well, all this sounds rather discouraging for WinLinux. Oh, well, I thought it sounded too good to be true, and I guess I was right (as usual    )

Have briefly visited slackware - they have both a "ZipSlack" and a "BigSlack" which will run without repartitioning... of course, BigSlack needs about 850 MEGs, but I have that much available, and it is apparently a fairly full-featured installation. One thing that worries me is that the documentation and/or "hand holding" on their site seems pretty thin.

From everything I've been reading, it looks like for a "real" Linux distro, Mandrake is probably the way to go for a newbie. And at least one review of the WinLinux mentioned that the FAT 32 system sacrifices the stability that whatever system Linux usually uses (can't remember) - basically, that at least part of the reason Windows is less stable is because it uses FAT instead of "X" (insert real name here).

Anyway, it's not like I have to decide today. I'll keep looking around. And who knows, maybe I'll just swap out my 4 gig "baby" hard drive with a 20 gig model. Gotta be cheaper than buying a new machine, and I have a nephew who can do the re-install of WIN98 (a clean re-install is not such a bad idea, actually).

Decisions, decisions. Good thing I'm sometimes mostly known for being more-or-less the decisive sort except for when I get bogged down in too many options or when I don't really think decisivness is a good idea which it sometimes really isn't because you have to look at all the variables, you know? <G>

Karen

[creedon]

quote:Originally posted by Karen:
Well, all this sounds rather discouraging for WinLinux. Oh, well, I thought it sounded too good to be true, and I guess I was right (as usual       )

Have briefly visited slackware - they have both a "ZipSlack" and a "BigSlack" which will run without repartitioning... of course, BigSlack needs about 850 MEGs, but I have that much available, and it is apparently a fairly full-featured installation. One thing that worries me is that the documentation and/or "hand holding" on their site seems pretty thin.

From everything I've been reading, it looks like for a "real" Linux distro, Mandrake is probably the way to go for a newbie. And at least one review of the WinLinux mentioned that the FAT 32 system sacrifices the stability that whatever system Linux usually uses (can't remember) - basically, that at least part of the reason Windows is less stable is because it uses FAT instead of "X" (insert real name here).

Anyway, it's not like I have to decide today. I'll keep looking around. And who knows, maybe I'll just swap out my 4 gig "baby" hard drive with a 20 gig model. Gotta be cheaper than buying a new machine, and I have a nephew who can do the re-install of WIN98 (a clean re-install is not such a bad idea, actually).

Decisions, decisions. Good thing I'm sometimes mostly known for being more-or-less the decisive sort except for when I get bogged down in too many options or when I don't really think decisivness is a good idea which it sometimes really isn't because you have to look at all the variables, you know? <G>

Karen

It's going to continue to be dissapointing.  For the forseeable future, no one is going to be able to come up with a "fitzall" Linux distro.  My reccomendation would be to try a real Linux distro- it's not as hard as it sounds, and almost all distros have limited ability to access Win files.
I'm using LibraNet 1.9.0- personally, I think it's much easier to install than any version of Windows, it looks great and it's Debian-based, and uses apt-get for updates.  (If you're not familiar with apt-get, it's an automatic updating system that will download, configure and install the latest software from Debian- FREE.)  I'm triple-booting LibraNet, Corel 1.2 and Win98, but I'm only keeping Win98 on my box br=ecause my scanner isn't supported under Linux yet- as soon as it is, Adios Windows.  

[kjg]

quote:Originally posted by creedon:


It's going to continue to be dissapointing.  For the forseeable future, no one is going to be able to come up with a "fitzall" Linux distro.  My reccomendation would be to try a real Linux distro- it's not as hard as it sounds, and almost all distros have limited ability to access Win files.

Yeah, I've pretty much come to that conclusion myself. I've looked at several of the distros on VoidMain's site, and have "kinda" narrowed it down to SuSE or Mandrake. At the moment, I'm leaning toward SuSE, because it seems to come with more "work" oriented programs - I'm not a gamer, so most of the games included in Mandrake are just so much deadweight. I'm still looking though - can't do a thing till I get a new CD drive and either replace my hard drive or add a second one. Plus, I've gotta get some work done too, ya know? So I'll check out the LibraNet you suggested and some of the other ones I've seen suggested here and elsewhere.

Karen

[creedon]

quote:Originally posted by Karen:


Yeah, I've pretty much come to that conclusion myself. I've looked at several of the distros on VoidMain's site, and have "kinda" narrowed it down to SuSE or Mandrake. At the moment, I'm leaning toward SuSE, because it seems to come with more "work" oriented programs - I'm not a gamer, so most of the games included in Mandrake are just so much deadweight. I'm still looking though - can't do a thing till I get a new CD drive and either replace my hard drive or add a second one. Plus, I've gotta get some work done too, ya know? So I'll check out the LibraNet you suggested and some of the other ones I've seen suggested here and elsewhere.

Karen

You're going about it the right way.  I've been through Redhat, Corel, Storm, Mandrake and a couple others.  I really like LibraNet because of the reasons in my earlier post, but the great thing about Linux is that you have choice- you don't have to take what's available.  Linux is getting easier to use too- when I installed Redhat 5.2, it was an unending chore.  Most dstros out now are easier than Windows to install.  I've really gotten hooked- I'm even thinking about Linux From Scratch, where you start with an empty, formatted partition, and build your own operating system from source code, adding exactly what you want, and leaving everything else out.  Someday, I'll take an extra tuck in my truss and go at it.