Effing newbie here...

[ErwinJ]

Hello everyone,

After lurking here for about two years now, reading up on MS, Linux and related matters and since I finally decided to (try to) install Linux, I thought it's about time to come out of the closet, so to speak.

And have annoying newbie questions right of the bat...

I tried to install Mandrake Linux tonight. I decided on Mandrake since after reading everything said on the subject on these fora led me to believe that might be the best way to get to know Linux.

Anyways, tried to install Mandrake. Two partitions: one 5Gig for 'root' and one 1Gig as the swap (I thought since Linux is able to read windows partitions I would try to keep things as much on the C-drive as possible). Everything seemed to go okay. But on reboot I don't get the bootloader. The comp boots up straight away in Windows.

Now, probably I've overlooked something very simple. So if any of you could enlighten this quivering newbie, I'd be grateful

[ July 16, 2003: Message edited by: ErwinJ ]

[askani]

Time to be helpful and poke some holes.

Honestly, if you're new you shouldn't be playing around much with partitions and directories. If you want to use Linux to its fullest make a 3 gig partition for it, using the ext3 filesystem (its veeeeery fast). Mount that partition as the / and put everything on there.

Mandrake will make it so you can mess around in your Windows partition (if it's not NTFS, NTFS support is only read only as far as i know) right off the bat.

And pure linux  distributions to my knowledge cannot operate off a windows partition period.

Your problem with things as you've installed is this: To boot linux from your windows partition you probably need to boot into windows, and try to boot it from there using loadlin (it's a bad idea, trust me, and it just plain will not work if you have Win98 Second Edition or newer....it needs MS-Dos protected mode to work).

The boot loader is supposed to load OSes from a primary or non-primary partition using that partition's MBR. Since you only have your /root directory on a proprietary partition, the bootloader cannot load the OS off of that. It's a fact that no boot loader in the world can load 2 or more OSes off the same Windows partition without boot sectors and a whole lot of work.

The last problem which is really small is that you should never under any circumstance have your swap partition be less that 100 megabytes. Ideally it should be twice the size of your current RAM. (unlessyou have 512k of ram in which case i apologize        ).

Usually, when setting up you will have a boot loader configuration prompt near the end of your install and it will tell you if your boot loader installed successfully. You get to configure all the labels for the different boot options and it should have a nice graphical interface.

My advice again, don't try to do complex things the first time you install Linux. Load it all on one big ext3 partiton, and start learning from there. These forums are a good(albeit slow) source for answers. And if you really need to be able to look at your linux partition from windows, there's a nice freeware prog out there called ext2 explorer (works perfectly with ext3 as well). Just google ext2 explorer and you should find it. Let us know if ya have any more questions.

EDIT:My typing still takes a few tries to get everything right.

[ July 16, 2003: Message edited by: askani ]

[ErwinJ]

Askani, thanks for the speedy reply... :cool:  

 

quote:Let us know if ya have any more questions.

Ooh, you're going to regret you said that    

 

quote:If you want to use Linux to its fullest make a 3 gig partition for it, using the ext3 filesystem (its veeeeery fast). Mount that partition as the / and put everything on there.

Well, AFAIK that's exactly what I did, 'cept the partition is 5Gig instead of 3 (little extra room can't hurt, right?). The extra swap partition wasn't my idea, the install asked for one.

Now since I have 368Megs of Ram and common advise is have the swap about 1.5 - 2 times the RAM I set the swap to 1Gig (again, a little extra room... BTW, the Megs in the first post were typos. I meant Gigs, of course  :rolleyes:  )

 

quote:To boot linux from your windows partition you probably need to boot into windows, and try to boot it from there using loadlin

But it *has* it's own (5Gig) partition.

 

quote:Mount that partition as the / and put everything on there.

Check... (I mean: did that)

 

quote:there's a nice freeware prog out there called ext2 explorer (works perfectly with ext3 as well).

Thanks for the tip! I'll go scavenging now...

[Stryker]

you dont have a /boot partition? it's best to make a /boot that's around 300mb or so. Do that before the other drives because sometimes it has to be towards the begining of the disk. I'd recommend just letting mandrake handle it. either by erasing the entire disk or by using unpartitioned space. Don't go jumping in the deep end before you can swim.

[askani]

OK let's talk turkey.

When you installed did you get a boot loader install prompt? If you did and it installed then you should be able to access it easily.

Try holding down the ALT key when you boot up your computer. I have my Lilo set for 0 second delay so it boots into WinXP almost seamlessly, but i can "see" it by holding fown the ALT key when I boot.

If you can't remember installing the boot loader, or doing any of that post config stuff it is possible your install might have crashed or something of the sort (what version of Mandrake are you installing anyway?)

You'll probably need to re-install it either way and make sure the install goes all the way thru, and configures your video AND boot loader before it's done. Keep firing away, I have all day here   .

Just so you know, I'm running an upgraded Mandrake 9.0 and it runs like a bloody dream. Ext3 on a 8 gig partition, and i have XP on the other one (read only access is a bit of a nuisance though).

I'm Mandrake for life now  

[ErwinJ]

quote:OK let's talk turkey.

Allrighty...

 

quote:When you installed did you get a boot loader install prompt?

Yep

 

quote:If you did and it installed then you should be able to access it easily.

Nope   :confused:  

 

quote:Try holding down the ALT key when you boot up your computer.

Okay. Will try that in a minute.

 

quote:I have my Lilo set for 0 second delay so it boots into WinXP almost seamlessly, but i can "see" it by holding fown the ALT key when I boot.

What's Lilo?

 

quote:what version of Mandrake are you installing anyway?

9.1 Got it off almostfreelinux.com. With a 56kb modem you don't d/l the iso's yourself. 'specially since over here you pay for that time.

 

quote:You'll probably need to re-install it either way and make sure the install goes all the way thru, and configures your video AND boot loader before it's done.

Well, I'll first try the 'Alt' thingy. After that I'll try to re-install. Not much else to do is there?

 

quote:I'm Mandrake for life now  

Well, yeah. That's kinda the idea I was aiming for too.

BTW, can I re-install on the already existing partition? Or do I need to get rid of it? And if so: How? The Drak thingy in the installer?

BTW partII: Strykers suggestion for a separate partition: Do I need to do that? And if so, how big does it need to be.

Oh, and Stryker

 

quote:Don't go jumping in the deep end before you can swim.

A habit that's a bit disaster prone, I'll grant you. But thus we learn quickest IMHO.

Anyway, I'm a bit of a control freak, especially where my comp is concerned. That's the reason I started on Linux to begin with. Had a taste of XP at work. So much shit going on there I do not have control over... Almost went down on my knees before the IT-guys to have them install 2000 on my comp (Linux is still a four letter word over there. Something to do with the licenses, susprisingly  :rolleyes:  )

Thanks for the help, anyways. Much appreciated.

[askani]

Okay. First off LiLo stands for Linux Loader and it is the ever popular linux boot loader that nearly everyone uses.

There are 2 good linux boot loaders that i know of and have used, namely Grub and Lilo. These two come with most linux distributions, and if you picked the advanced setup, as i do you get to pick and choose and configure everything to death.

Next time you install, if the ALT key doesn't work for you make sure you also make a boot floppy for yourself. If you have one already i don't know why you're sitting around asking questions. Boot into linux with it and see what the deal is.

A last point, also for the reinstall, would be to make sure you have the boot loader installed in the MBR of your primary partition (your windows one i'm assuming which is usually /dev/hda1) because if you have it in the linux partition it is useless.

[solo]

ok i didnt read the last 2 posts because yall seem to have this going nicely but I believe swap partitions should not be any larger than your current ram (i believe thats what redhat installer told me...) could be wrong tho. it said otherwise performance decreases

but hell i cant remember very well, the redhat install just went so goddamn fast (25 fucking minutes)

[Stryker]

yeah, you dont want too much of your memory going to the hard drive. keeping a low swap (if u have lots of ram) will increase performance. otherwise it'll use the swap when it feels like and decrease disk performance.

generally:
200mb /boot
256mb swap
5-10gb /
rest /home


That's what I do, works fine. You might want to go into rescue mode and install lilo again from there. lilo --help will tell u how.

[ErwinJ]

Well, I got it sorted. Didn't even have to re-install. Just update and look what the configuration actually was like.

Turns out qua bootloader GRUB was installed but Mandrake was configured for Lilo. Changed it over to GRUB and hey, presto.

Anyways, thanks for the help and the tips. I'll see if I can change the swap some. See if that ups the performance (though as of yet I'm not complaining).

BTW, what's the MBR? (told you I'm a noob    )

Been rummaging around for a little while. This'll take some getting used to. 'specially configuring wise... As of now just about nothing is working. You guys have any links for linux drivers of different hardware?

Particularly the modem would be cool to have working. It's an integrated Sis900 modem and Mandrake doesn't have the drivers for it. BTW, the SBive, even though the drivers are loaded, doesn't do anything. Well, if you can't be bothered don't sweat it. I'll go and read up on all if this stuff anyway.

Anyways, thanks again. I'll go sleep now. Waaay past my bedtime.

[askani]

The MBR is the Master Boot Record, it's basically the first few sectors of a partition that tell the BIOS what to load and how.

The modem is a bit of a sensitive issue. If it's a Winmodem, then linux doesn't support it at all, because Winmodems work mosty thru software, and as the name implies were made with windows in mind,. Linux doesn't have modem drivers per se, but you can see if it supports your modem just by going into the X and trying out one of the PPP programs (which are what you will be using to connect to the 'net).

[Stryker]

try linmodems.org. I got my conexant working through there. Maybe you'll have some luck.


oh, and get a high speed connection  

[emh]

I can help you with this:

 

quote:Originally posted by ErwinJ:

Been rummaging around for a little while. This'll take some getting used to. 'specially configuring wise... As of now just about nothing is working. You guys have any links for linux drivers of different hardware?

Particularly the modem would be cool to have working. It's an integrated Sis900 modem and Mandrake doesn't have the drivers for it. BTW, the SBive, even though the drivers are loaded, doesn't do anything. Well, if you can't be bothered don't sweat it. I'll go and read up on all if this stuff anyway.

Anyways, thanks again. I'll go sleep now. Waaay past my bedtime.

For the SBLive, check your mixer controls.  They're muted by default.  Look for a program called "Aumix".  It's under "Multimedia", "Sound" in the menu.  If the volume controls are down all the way, simply turn them up.

By the way, which version of Mandrake did you try?

[ErwinJ]

quote:For the SBLive, check your mixer controls. They're muted by default. Look for a program called "Aumix".

Doh!!! I actually did look in there, but didn't quite see the volume for the output was turned down. MP3 collection playing nicely now. Thanks

Well, small update: Found drivers that should work with the modem. Apparently it *is* a winmodem, but with the drivers I found it should work (3 different websites told me so). Now I only have to figure out how to install them... More reading to do, I guess  

Man, this whole Linux thing is a tad on the overwhelming side!!! Thousands and thousands of modules, libs and executables to install (or not). This *is* going to take some time. BTW, is it just me, or are the filenames not exactly intuitive?

I still have a question though: The gfx-card (Geforce2) installed not quite properly. As soon as I start an OpenGL application the rendering seems to go totally software. I've been looking around and as far as I can tell OpenGL is installed. So how do I tell Linux to use that lib for OGL-applications?

Anyway, thanks everyone for their input. Y'all have been a great help.

[Calum]

AskArnie, can i request that you take the time to read a question before you answer it and also check your facts before you say things. i have no doubt your intentions are good, but it's simply confusing to have somebody post slightly wrong info in a way which appears legitimate.

thank you.