Microsoft admits Linux is worthy rival

[lazygamer]

Ballmer on Linux

 

quote:Last week Microsoft held a meeting in Berlin with European industry analysts to discuss Linux and other Open Source Software (OSS), writes Tony Lock, of Bloor Research. The day concluded with CEO Steve Ballmer discussing Microsoft's position in the world.

The discussions began with Microsoft acknowledging that Linux and OSS is appearing in a number of different segments. To kick things off the company acknowledged that it lost credibility in the past by criticising the Linux core (kernel and web server stack). It accepts that this core now possesses credibility in the commercial world.

Broadly speaking, Microsoft sees the areas where an impact has been felt as "Community" software (simple file and print services, e-mail and firewall / cache), "Commercial quality Community" based software (Linux kernel, networking, web serving) and true "Commercial" software (ISV applications and databases such as Oracle and DB2).

The company believes that Linux solutions appeal to different organisations for different reasons. For some, especially price-sensitive SMB organisations, the low cost of purchase and its ability to function on comparatively low cost hardware platforms appear to be major attractions. For others it may be the ability to configure OSS in a bespoke fashion that is the prime attraction.

When discussion turned to which platforms Linux is currently gaining share from, opinions were divided. Microsoft believes that the major movers behind Linux (in its opinion IBM and Intel) are using the OSS movement as a means to disrupt the Unix market and that Unix systems comprise the major source of movement. Others present proposed that organisations are migrating from both Unix and Windows to Linux.

Ballmer was qcandid when he was asked about the current attention that the company is now paying to Linux when compared to its former stance of apparent unconcern. He simply smiled and responded that "we were neither unconcerned nor unaware of Linux; we just tried not to show it!"

According to Ballmer it is obvious that the advent of Linux and OSS means that Microsoft can no longer rely on the "we are cheaper to acquire" message to win and retain customers. In recognising this the company is now focusing much attention on its belief that its solutions provide a much better TCO case than those currently available using Linux-based tools.

He also stressed that "Innovation" and the creation of complete solutions rather than simple software functionality would hold the key to future success.

Ballmer once again made it clear that Microsoft had absolutely no plans to port any of its substantial software library to Linux. Apart from concerns centred on the possible impact that any accidental inclusion of GPL code could have on the integrity of Microsoft's own intellectual property, he argued that it could be counterproductive to the development of its products.

Overall the day indicated that Microsoft is now happy to recognise that the influence of Linux is growing. It is clear that we can now expect Microsoft to attempt to build its case for Windows as an operating system based on rational arguments rather than a simple dismissal.

It will be interesting to see how the company sets about promoting its qualities versus those of open source. It will be even more fascinating to monitor the response of customers, OSS advocates and the world at large.  

So dissing Linux and OSS doesn't do anything, and accepting it's worthiness as a competitor just helps confirm suspicions. Can you say... rock and a hard place?  

[Calum]

oho! hot off the presses here, posted this morning in the reg:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/30715.html

the gist is that microsoft have been arranging a setup where they lower their costs to try and keep customers that would otherwise switch to linux. looks as though microsoft really are worried about linux under the surface.
and for any naysayers, you will notice that this register article is based on information from the herald and tribune.

[Faust]

Now who would be naysaying I wonder?  
BTW exactly what would the cost be of a 10 year old hacking your PC and stealing thousands of credit card numbers?  THIS is where the real "cost" of Windows comes in.  Compared to it's TCO/crackability (thus "liability") $500 for an OS is nothing.

[Faust]

quote:"Under NO circumstances lose against Linux," he said, saying that in cases where the deal involved governments or large institutions there was a special fund available which could be used to offer large discounts, or even to give Microsoft software away.

Note that this is a reputable quote all, from Microsofts _head_ of marketting. They have to bribe people to use their products? . That reminds me I must find an open office poster to shove up next to the co op bookshops MS office one.  

[Calum]

i used to work for the coop bookshop in sydney, are they still offering that "bargain" price of two hundred and fifty bucks for students to buy a copy of microsoft office 2000?

i agree with the coop bookshop's altruistic origins but quite frankly they suck now.

also you know up till last year their inventory system was run on SunOS4.2? (i used to use a terminal in the back room to access their kludgy stock program, that people had failed to document as they were passing through the company) well you know they replaced their system last year, what with? have three guesses.

[Faust]

Yep!  Windows Office now "bargain" price of $250, get it before it gets even more rip off.  :rolleyes:
It's ok though, I defaced some of their calenders advertising MS with permanent marker.  Now they are all better.  

The co op is still cool.  Cheap text books (although if its not a text book it's less expensive to get it elsewhere.)  

 

quote:also you know up till last year their inventory system was run on SunOS4.2

Our computer science dept is running sun 5.9 so I pity anyone running anything less than that POS... but! they are now being upgraded to red hat 8.0 boxes! yay!

 

quote:well you know they replaced their system last year, what with? have three guesses.

Theres no smiley/frowny face so I cant tell if it was Linux or Windows.  Im a pessimist so I say Windows.  Meh...  they still have cheap text books, even if their IT department are sell outs.

[Calum]

realist more like.
i left before they changed so i don't know for sure but i am fairly confident their plans were to replace it with microsoftware...

[Faust]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Damn you co-op your bastion of resistance against the forces of corporate evil is crumbling.  But the girl at the front counter of mine is cute so I'll still go.  
And like I said, cheap books.

[lazygamer]

quote:Originally posted by Faust:
BTW exactly what would the cost be of a 10 year old hacking your PC and stealing thousands of credit card numbers?  THIS is where the real "cost" of Windows comes in.  Compared to it's TCO/crackability (thus "liability") $500 for an OS is nothing.

Very good point! But about credit card theft, wouldn't that be out of the realm of script kiddies(cracker stuff basically)? ESPECIALLY against corporate/business targets. I would imagine that as insecure as wind0ze is, alot of corporate/buisness wind0ze boxes are quite script kiddy secure. This is because administrator > common mass market n00b end user.  

[Calum]

quote:Originally posted by lazygamer:


Very good point! But about credit card theft, wouldn't that be out of the realm of script kiddies(cracker stuff basically)? ESPECIALLY against corporate/business targets. I would imagine that as insecure as wind0ze is, alot of corporate/buisness wind0ze boxes are quite script kiddy secure. This is because administrator > common mass market n00b end user.      

uh huh, and you heard that at which microsoft seminar? "oh no, no ten year old script kiddie could possibly topple our oh so secure system, well there may be one or two flaws (rich person style laugh) but the likelihood of a system being compromised by anyone less than an extreme professional is beyond a joke and our developers are making windows more secure every day"

yeah right, and what motive do microsoft have for making windows more secure*? nobody has told me one reason yet. there are many reasons however for keeping windows insecure and all of them involve money.

And how come whenever you hear of some supercybercriminal "hacker" he always turns out to have been using a 486 and have no training? he's just cobbling together stuff he found on the web! tons of people could do it! the only reason it doesn't happen more often is that most people can't be fucked to waste their time bringing down windows systems!

your point can be answered in two ways. firstly, many companies hide their windows network behind *nix gateways, this makes them secure from anything on the other side of the gateway. So they have windows stuff, but they are shielded by a nice secure *ix. secondly, if they only had windows, no amount of good administration would be able to help them. If your system is full of holes, and it is closed source (ie you cannot fix the holes and recompile it) then you are fucked, that's it, the end.


* assuming it to be technicaly possible, considering their long catalogue of "legacy" issues (read: mistakes)

[ May 15, 2003: Message edited by: Calum: hopelessly outnumbered ]

[Faust]

quote:And how come whenever you hear of some supercybercriminal "hacker" he always turns out to have been using a 486 and have no training?

486 hackers are 1337.     It's the kids with the overclocked AMDs that do the script stuff

 

quote: firstly, many companies hide their windows network behind *nix gateways,

According to man nmap queso scans show MS as using BSD routers.    

 

quote:Very good point! But about credit card theft, wouldn't that be out of the realm of script kiddies(cracker stuff basically)?

Finding the original exploit would take reasonable skill.  But once it is published on bugtraq/IRC...  have you actually seen the windows based cracking tools?  All you have to do is fill like 2 fields in, click start and she goes!  Half of them have frigging wizards!

[ May 15, 2003: Message edited by: Faust ]

[jtpenrod]

quote:Register open source contacts have insisted for some years now that Microsoft's government and large accounts sales teams have special dispensation - on the highest authority - to block open source deployments at any price; the leaked emails would therefore appear to confirm that they are right. Microsoft is particularly interested in winning and keeping control of UK government and public sector IT systems, and this has bizarre consequences for would-be insurgents.

Same tactic long known to drug pushers: give 'em enough free tastes, and soon you'll have a customer for life paying the real rate once they're good and hooked.

Crack dealer: WHUDDA wunnerful role-model!      
_________________________________________
Live Free or Die: Linux

"There: now you'll never have to look at those dirty Windows anymore"
      --Daffy Duck

[lazygamer]

quote:uh huh, and you heard that at which microsoft seminar? "oh no, no ten year old script kiddie could possibly topple our oh so secure system, well there may be one or two flaws (rich person style laugh) but the likelihood of a system being compromised by anyone less than an extreme professional is beyond a joke and our developers are making windows more secure every day"

Sad to say, but this came from my own logic, not from Microsoft propaganda.  

I simply assumed that credit card number theft involved at least a little more expertise than using some user friendly windows crasher program.

 

quote:your point can be answered in two ways. firstly, many companies hide their windows network behind *nix gateways, this makes them secure from anything on the other side of the gateway. So they have windows stuff, but they are shielded by a nice secure *ix. secondly, if they only had windows, no amount of good administration would be able to help them. If your system is full of holes, and it is closed source (ie you cannot fix the holes and recompile it) then you are fucked, that's it, the end.

Very good point! That is quite smart. So basically you feel that Windows is so insecure, that a properly trained admin, wind0ze patches(assuming their is no *nix shield) and a good firewall, isn't enough to stop most script kiddies? If you do... then I guess I overestimate wind0ze capabilities.