Question about Macs:

[Tank]

What would you recommend for someone who plans on making alot of graphics and playing alot of games, the new iMac or the G4 Tower?

Also, would it also be wise to choose OS X as my server or Linux (nah) or NetBSD (yes, I know X was fashioned after BSD yadda yadda yadda but they are two different operating systems.

[psyjax]

Hey Tank.

I needed the exact same thing and I had the cash at the time (i.e. Excess student loan money that's gonna kill me when Im outta school, but WTF you only live once). Anyway, I got a Dual 800Mhz G4 and haven't looked back.

The thing runs everything I throw at it at blinding speeds, and even the most graphic entense games don't make a stutter on the system.

It's funny, I buy Red Faction, Quake III, Alice, etc. and in the options I don't even think about it, I just hit the maximum for everything quite confident it will run without a hitch. And guess what? It does!! Woooo...

Cooler than that is emulation on this thing. I love Runing CPS mame on it, (I'm a fan of the marvel vs. and capcom vs. games) and they run like they are hot off the arcades.

Adding to the overal speed and the like is OS X of course. Lot's of games benifit from it's excelent design which supports dual Processors BTW.

Photoshop, and other related graphic apps run incredibly well. I have been working on 18x24" CMYK 300dpi Images in photoshop and I haven't even experienced scroll lag.

I do photorealistic Illustrator stuff and nothing slowes down EVER. So heck if you want top of the line that's not gonna be obsolete in 3 years (or at least not expandable to account for new tech, which BTW this machine is very expandable) this is the way to go.

On the other hand, the new iMac's are WAY WAY attractive and are an all in one packadge. Those things are at least as powerfull as mine for most taskas and they will run all current games for sure.

Give it alot of RAM and photoshop should fly. When I was shopping for a comp I worked out that I could get a high end iMac and an iBook for the same price as the system I did get. So that might be something to think about, heck I muled that one over for a bit.

Anyway, today you got it even better cuz you could get the dual 1ghz and the dual 900's for about the same price I got mine.

I paid about 3,200 total with a student discount.

Finaly, one thing to keep in mind: RAM! los's of ram is key, especially in graphics apps. So make sure to "fill her up". If your buying from apple get the lowest ram they offer cuz you can get it way cheap from outpost.

I baught two 512 DIMMs of corsair memory with a lifetime guarontee for around 65 bucks each. Apple would have run me a few hundred, total I got 1.2 GB.

Another thing that will keep the price down is getting a cheep screen. I got a Mitsubishi DimondPro 17" with the student discount and it has served me darn well. Heck IMHO the flat screens aren''t worth getting les you get the 22" cinema or something cuz to me 15 and 17 f;at screens just look wierd. Too small to be cool (save for the new iMac.

Anyway Got to brag about my  system so Im  happy  

I seriously hope this helped...

Good luck!

[ravuya]

G4 towers with shitloads of RAM and a cheap monitor will be excellent for gaming.

About serving.. I think your best chance would be with OS X Server.. but I have no idea what those things are like (Apple.com uses them - seems to be fast), or how easy it is to set up.

[Tank]

Thanks dudes, it was a real help. I think I'll be buying an iMac or a G4, they sound really really good. I just don't see how these machines don't smash Windows and/or Microsoft out of the ground. Mac OS X kicks XPs ass in performance, looks, and everything else.

[ravuya]

quote:Originally posted by Tank:
Thanks dudes, it was a real help. I think I'll be buying an iMac or a G4, they sound really really good. I just don't see how these machines don't smash Windows and/or Microsoft out of the ground. Mac OS X kicks XPs ass in performance, looks, and everything else.

It's all marketing. At least Apple is starting to parade the advantages of the Mac platform with their Easier campaign (check the hyperlink I just gave out).

[Bateluer]

My old HS just got some of the G4 Towers. From what my younger brothers and sister tell me, they are complete pieces of junk.

The Mac OSX interface is possibly the worst company designed interface I have ever seen. (I've seen a few personal skins that people made for XP that were practically unusable.)

The PC, IMO, is much easier to use than a Mac. Its also faster and cheaper. IF Apple wants to compete competively with MS, Intel, AMD, and the rest, they need to open their platform up. Keeping it totally in house is really hindering its development.

[psyjax]

I must totaly disagree with you. OSX is probably the most powerful and easy to use OS I have ever seen in my life. And the G4's they put in your HS are probably locked up with AtEase or Foolproof running OS 9 and are not taken very good care of. That is my experience anyway.

Right now Im running a dual 800 under OSX and it kicks every computer's ass I have ever used.

Don't even start arguing ease of use however, the fact is, the Mac's interface is probably one of the best thought out and well designed in the world. Are you even aware of the amount of research that whent in to designing it? Hell back in the days of OS 7.5 apple had a developer guide calld the User Interface Guidelines, that explained the logic and psychology behind every little thing in the system. M$ wishe's they had an origional bone in their body, cuz thanks to Apples little book they didn't need to design a thing. Infact the only reason you think XP is so easy to use is because they basically stole all the elements from the Mac.

Jeez... please explain to me WHAT on earth can be done easier thrugh XP or any god forsaken windoez OS that you can't do on OSX?

And, BTW there is more to an OS than just a crappy ass skin for god sakes!!!!!

Oh I forgot, your using XP, isn't that just a crappy ass skin for 2000      

I honestly don't think you have used OSX, or a Mac for that matter, for any period of time, because I think you would be quite surprised.
 
As far as PC's go, they are great machines. Windoze is what sux ass in every way shape or form.

As far as Apple opening up their platform, I don't think that's going to happen any time soon. OSX may be ported to x86 systems in the future but Mac's won't be made by another manufacturer other than Apple.

But I don't see this as a hindrance to their development at all. Because both the software and hardware are developed in house, the integreation and efficiency achived by the two are fantastic.

You mention PC's being faster, and as has been argued back and fourth countless times, you can't argue Mhz across diffrent chip architectures. The G4's outperform most Intel and AMD chips when doing what they were ment to do, i.e. running high-end publishing and graphics applications.

Furthermore while Pentiums and AMD chips may have higher clock speeds, it's the amount of data that is processed per cycle that matters, not just the speed. G4's are tons more efficient than all these chips when it comes to this.

And as far as expense.. well, why drive a Honda when you can have a Rolls Royce      

Anyway, If you like PC's thats great. Im not gonna flame or accuse you of talkin out your ass. But I urge you, do dump that load of crap calld XP and try some diffrent operating systems.

Just read some of the stuff M$ is doing!!! Do you really wan't an OS that is being produced by a monopolistic organization hell ben't on controlling your, and everyone elses computing experience?

Whatever...

I think you should broaden your digital horizons a bit more before you become just another Microserf.

Oh ya, and let's not forget these old things:

http://www.opensource.org/halloween/

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]

[ March 03, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]

[Bateluer]

psyjax, the G4s at my old HS are running OSX, but they do run AtEase or Foolproof.

I did have the opportunity to toy with my an imac the other day at CompUSA. Note, i have a friend that works at CompUSA, so I got to play with it before any locks or blocks were installed. During the 15 minutes I messed with it, I managed to crash IE twice and get three numbered error messagesthat told me to restart the system.

For gaming the PC is the better choice. We actually get the games in a 'timely' manner, with the mac versions following a couple months to years behind.

I am not as intimitaly familiar with the G4 chip as I am with Intel's p4 and AMD's Athlon XP. But you are right when you say its the amount of work the processor can do that counts. That is also why the AthlonXP processor gets my vote.  

I will never do much with macs unless I can build my own. I despise prebuilts with a passion. As long as Apple has a closed system, i will not buy their systems. Simple as that.

[psyjax]

quote:Originally posted by Bateleur:
I will never do much with macs unless I can build my own. I despise prebuilts with a passion. As long as Apple has a closed system, i will not buy their systems. Simple as that.

Point well taken. But I have had all sorts of OS's behave funny in stores before, thats not an accurate messure of their performance or capability. Public machines are generaly mistreated, heck, I went to a comp USA and checkd out the PC's they had a laptop with a smashed in screen, and a copy of XP frozen stiff (don't know how), so that to me says little.

[FOOZKEEPER]

quote:Originally posted by Bateleur:
psyjax, the G4s at my old HS are running OSX, but they do run AtEase or Foolproof.

I did have the opportunity to toy with my an imac the other day at CompUSA. Note, i have a friend that works at CompUSA, so I got to play with it before any locks or blocks were installed. During the 15 minutes I messed with it, I managed to crash IE twice and get three numbered error messagesthat told me to restart the system.

For gaming the PC is the better choice. We actually get the games in a 'timely' manner, with the mac versions following a couple months to years behind.

I am not as intimitaly familiar with the G4 chip as I am with Intel's p4 and AMD's Athlon XP. But you are right when you say its the amount of work the processor can do that counts. That is also why the AthlonXP processor gets my vote.    

I will never do much with macs unless I can build my own. I despise prebuilts with a passion. As long as Apple has a closed system, i will not buy their systems. Simple as that.

IE crashing is microsofts fault, obviously, since they made the browser. Though about the error telling you to restart... that sounds more like OS 9, ive never see an error like that in OS X...

[billy_gates]

I do think it would be cool if Apple opened up their systems and let you make your own, but keeping it closed is what makes the Mac superior. The fastest way I can try to explain this is "You make it work with everything, you make it work with nothing." that is what has happened to Windows, that is why it sucks. Besides that fact that Windows is and always has been crapass copies of the Mac OS, trying to make it support every piece of Hardware imaginable is what kills it.

Anyone agree, or should I get my head out of my ass?

[psyjax]

quote:Originally posted by Billy Gates:
I do think it would be cool if Apple opened up their systems and let you make your own, but keeping it closed is what makes the Mac superior. The fastest way I can try to explain this is "You make it work with everything, you make it work with nothing." that is what has happened to Windows, that is why it sucks. Besides that fact that Windows is and always has been crapass copies of the Mac OS, trying to make it support every piece of Hardware imaginable is what kills it.

Anyone agree, or should I get my head out of my ass?

I totaly agree. Personaly, I don't see the trouble in not building one from scratch. I belive people see this as extra expence but the fact is you are paying for high-quality components. And it's not like you cant replace or upgrade hardware.

But I wouldent say the closed system is the Mac's only strength. It has a hell of alot going for it other than that.

[gump420]

On the issue of OS X's interface, I think it sucks. In fact, I think it sucks smelly hairy gorilla ass. However, do I think that is a fair way to sum up the operating system that powers the interface? Hell no.

Apple's problem is in thinking they can sell a development platform marketed as a deployment platform and not make people mad. It's stupid, really. Just because M$ has gotten away with an unpolished, buggy interface for years doesn't mean I should have to put up with the same thing on a Macintosh and not even have the option of using a custom window manager.

[gump420]

On the issue of OS X's interface, I think it sucks. In fact, I think it sucks smelly hairy gorilla ass. However, do I think that is a fair way to sum up the operating system that powers the interface? Hell no.

Apple's problem is in thinking they can sell a development platform marketed as a deployment platform and not make people mad. It's stupid, really. Just because M$ has gotten away with an unpolished, buggy interface for years doesn't mean I should have to put up with the same thing on a Macintosh and not even have the option of using a custom window manager.

((Oh, and I highly recommend the new iMac. I might have been happier waiting for the first revision instead of the bleeding edge model, but it's still a very powerful computer in a nice package.))

[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: gump420 ]

[psyjax]

WOW! Apple never had any fantasys about OS X. Infact on it's first launch, hardly any fanfair was made because they new it was not quite stable enugh for the public. They did it so it could be wider spread for people to develop on. That's why it's Open sourced and OS9 is still supported. Look out for OS 10.2, alot of the old functionality is coming back.

As for the interface, I didn't like it at first, felt much the same way as you. I was like, why the hell fix what wasn't broke back in the earlyer OS's, But I tell you, after using it almost exclusively for several months now, I can never go back. The true Brilliance of it really starts to shine once you get used to it. Just give it a bit of a chance and you will see what I mean.

http://www.lowendmac.com/musings/02/0311.html

An interesting note, they have an article comparing the progress of OS X to the progress of the earlyer Mac OS. You can see that the same sort of burps and bumps were present back until OS 6.

The similarty lies in the fact that just as Apple was revolutionizing the way people use computers back then, so the same is occuring today.

[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]

[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: psyjax ]