Author Topic: Buying an iBook (questions)  (Read 1014 times)

Calum

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« on: 26 August 2003, 16:28 »
I'm probably going to buy an iBook and i have some VERY basic questions that i would like to hear answers to please:

* it's a G3 iBook. is this a waste of time? i can't really afford anything snazzier.

* it's software is "Mac OSX/OS9", is this good or bad, and why?

* should/can i upgrade it to Jaguar, if so, how, if not, why?

* do i need to do anything special to have normal user admin (eg i want to open an xterm-like window and be able to su - to root, everybody logs in as a nonpriveleged user, can use passwd to change their password, must login using an xdm style login window etc), as is generally default in a graphical linux?

*i am particularly concerned in case the default is to have all users just login as root without any passwordage etc, how can i fix this?

* is there anything else i should know?

thanks in advance! :-D
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Pantso

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #1 on: 26 August 2003, 17:32 »
Calum, if you do buy an iBook I can assure you that you will have made a great investment. Now, to answer your questions:

1) A G3 iBook is what I have also. Specifically, I have an iBook 2002 G3 with a PowerPC processor running at 600MHz. Let me only say that it runs perfectly. If you plan to run OS X though, you should upgrade the RAM and anything above 128MBs will suffice. It's a great investment for a laptop that is worth every penny, or cent or whatever.

2) This means that it comes with both OS 9 (probably 9.2.2) and OS X (probably 10.1.4) as did mine. If it comes with Jaguar which I'm now using (10.2.*), then that's even better. Of course, you may install OS X or OS 9 only but I'm sure you'll opt for the former   :D  If you install both, then you will be able to use OS X's Classic Environment to run OS 9 apps from within OS X with an option to boot into OS 9 directly if you wish, although I don't see the reason why  

3) Of course you should if you can. What I did was buy the upgrade version which came in a discount. I can send it to you. I know I shouldn't be saying this here but it's too expensive to buy, so I'd be glad to help. Also, I can send you the Developers tools CD to take FULL advantage of the BSD subsystem. That way you'll be able to install Darwin Ports, FreeBSD ports etc.

4) The default account in OS X is an admin account. Note that I said admin account and not root account. You can use this account with absolute safety and create as many users as you like, even normal ones without any admin privileges. You can do everything from the Terminal, with the tcsh shell coming as the default one or just go to System Preferences and manage your accounts there. What I did was add my account to the sudoers list and when I have an root job to perform, I type sudo... etc and that's it. Also note that the root account is by default de-activated in OS X and you have to activate it yourself. I will give you more details on that when you get your iBook.

5) Read my post above

6) There are many things I'll tell you to avoid, be aware of so that you may squeeze the best out of the BSD subsystem that comes with OS X. For example, don't get XWindows from Apple but use XonX from the Sourceforge project. I will also tell you how to use Darwin Ports, FreeBSd Ports etc. For more info go to promote-opensource.org

Now, in September I'll probably dump OS X for OpenBSD. The reason is mostly Apple's continuous upgrade cycles and radical changes to the file system, kernel etc with every new version. There's also a rumor that the Developer Tools will be offered as a paid version. Sigh.

That's about it. PM me for more info  

jasonlane

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #2 on: 26 August 2003, 17:42 »
Panos has said it all so eloquently, can't add anything other that 12'' ibooks are shit hot.

Good job   :D
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Calum

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #3 on: 26 August 2003, 17:58 »
two or three things then,

1) thanks panos! you seem to know a lot which i have no idea about when it comes to MacOSX, so if i do get an iBook i expect i will be coming to you for info a lot

2) money! has reared its head again. it's hard to buy a G3 iBook for
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xyle_one

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #4 on: 26 August 2003, 19:53 »
The upgrade cycles are bothersome. Everytime they release a new os, i have to pay $129. Kinda sucks, wish i could use the "free upgrade coupon" i got when i bought jaguar the first time, but we all know those things don't work. But i still think that getting an iBook is a good idea, and if you get bored with osX, you could always just install a linux distro on there  

i am looking forward to Panther. And i probably will dish out 129 for it  :(

Pantso

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #5 on: 26 August 2003, 19:57 »
Indeed Zardoz they are shit hot. I just love my iBook   :D  

Calum, there is a long term benefit when buying an iBook and that has to do with the hardware. Remember that things hardware-wise are not what they seem when you come to compare a seemingly "slower" Mac to an x86-based computer. For example, I have used Linux on my 600MHz iBook and on a PIV and I can honestly say that Linux performed much better on the iBook.

Furthermore, the hardware works more harmoniously on any Mac. Now, when I wrote about Apple's upgrade cycles, I meant that Apple has the tendency of forcing its customers to upgrade every now and then. That's not bad of course as long as you don't have to pay for the updates. For example, inbetween major releases noone has to pay for any updates but then again when a major release comes out, like Panther in a few months time, one has to pay to get it.

Not only that, but Apple's software engineers tend to play a lot with the underlying BSD subsystem and change many things around, thus forcing those developers who port OSS and FS apps to OS X to adjust to that accordingly. Of course you can run other OSes on a Mac, like one of the BSDs like I mentioned, or a GNU/Linux distro. For example, I'll opt for OpenBSD since I'm a security paranoid but I could also run Debian GNU/Linux or Mandrake Linux (which btw supports the softmodem on the iBooks fully) just as easily.

All in all, the choice is yours to make Calum and I completely understand your worries about the cost, which compared to x86 computers is of course higher. Whatever you decision, I trust that it will a wise one  

Calum

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #6 on: 26 August 2003, 21:24 »
i'm desperate to get a mac at some point but i think i will hold off till i can get a g4 as a secondhand machine in a year or two, and hopefully by then some more settling will have happened in the Darwin/OSX camp too.

In the meantime i think i've more or less decided to buy a compaq M300 with NO preinstalled OS (cheaper plus no pittance goes to you know who) and install the latest red hat or mandrake on it. the winmodem won't work though unless i install the linmodems driver or i can use a PC card modem like i did in the last laptop.

Thanks all round for your input guys, i think i'll wait till i want a desktop computer to buy a macintosh.
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M51DPS

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #7 on: 26 August 2003, 21:25 »
My brother just got an iBook, works fine (900 Mhz, maxed out the ram to 640 MB). It came with Jaguar and the guy at the store said that if you buy AppleCare you can get the next three OS upgrades at, I think, either a large discount or free. He also got a Logitech optical mouse because he doesn't like trackpads. Of course there are rumors that all the laptops will be upgraded soon, but the iBook is still great.

billy_gates

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #8 on: 26 August 2003, 21:58 »
quote:
Originally posted by Calum:
i'm desperate to get a mac at some point but i think i will hold off till i can get a g4 as a secondhand machine in a year or two, and hopefully by then some more settling will have happened in the Darwin/OSX camp too.

In the meantime i think i've more or less decided to buy a compaq M300 with NO preinstalled OS (cheaper plus no pittance goes to you know who) and install the latest red hat or mandrake on it. the winmodem won't work though unless i install the linmodems driver or i can use a PC card modem like i did in the last laptop.

Thanks all round for your input guys, i think i'll wait till i want a desktop computer to buy a macintosh.



I highly recommend waiting to get a G4.  If you get a G4 you are guaranteed to be able to run OSX for at least the next 10 years.  G3's may be phased out sooner.  Now don't get me wrong... OSX keeps getting faster.  Panther is screamin, the next OSX will probably be cheetah cus it will be so damn fast.  But eventually the speed up thing will stop.  As more and more people get G5's anf 4's.  Apple will fade G3's out.  So get a G4 and don't worry about software compatibility.

When it comes to running Linux apps on my mac I stick with Fink.  However the only app I run is wget.  Can't find any others that interest me.  Good news about this.  Panther has not changed the BSD enough so that fink does not work.  I did not compile any source (all binaries) and it all works.  I may look into darwin ports or the other one mentioned cus I want Gnome 2 and Fink doesn't have it yet.

So hold off until you can get a G4.... you can already get the old 15"er off ebay.  But what I think I would do is wait for apple to upgrade their powerbooks (coming very soon).  Run to a comp usa or something and see if they have any of the old ones left to sell on clearance.  That is how I got my ibook.


You will never look back, I guarantee it.

jasonlane

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #9 on: 27 August 2003, 01:36 »
G4's are good, my everyday dev machine is a G4... There's some good deals to be had in London, If you're a student you might be able to shave more of the cost.....

Duh, I missed one of your posts. Good luck with the compaq M300, I'm sure it will serve you well for a year or two   ;)

[ August 26, 2003: Message edited by: Zardoz ]

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M51DPS

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #10 on: 27 August 2003, 23:27 »
So far Apple has used these for code names:

7.6 - Harmony
8.0 - Tempo
8.1 - Bride of Buster
8.5 - Allegro
8.6 - Veronica
9.0 - Sonata
9.2 - Moonlite
10.0 - Cyan, Cheetah
10.1 - Puma
10.2 - Jaguar
10.2 Server - Tigger
10.3 - Panther

TheQuirk

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #11 on: 28 August 2003, 03:02 »
Doesn't Apple have a crazy "free upgrades for students/educators" program?

I know one of my teachers got Jaguar for free because he was a teacher--I know you're a student, Calum, so try checking up on that.

rkmaster24

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #12 on: 28 August 2003, 03:54 »
Macs are based on Unix my friend. If you want to try a real computer, get a Windows XP powered Dell PC.


I recently found this web site and have been browsing through these forums, and I am just shocked by all the stupidity I have read. However I have gotten good laughs too because of you people. What of waste of time, money, energy, and web space this site is. You people don’t even have any valid and legitimate excuses for hating Microsoft so much! You refer to Microsoft as “M$”. I guess by doing that you’re making fun of the fact that Microsoft wants to make profits. Well why do you people start businesses in the first place – TO MAKE PROFITS!!! To make a living! If you’re gonna be saying that Microsoft is too greedy than I got news for you – every company’s and every business’s in the world goal is to make money and to look out for themselves. That’s what capitalism is you communists.
Now about Open Source, open formats, and all that. Sure, I agree. Getting software for free is nice. So is modifying its code to do what you want if you can program. But just think about it – what good would it do to Microsoft if they did what you guys want – open the Windows source code. If they did that then people everywhere would just start modifying the Windows code and letting people download it. Nobody would ever actually buy Windows from Microsoft again. So what good would it bring them?? Open Source might be good for software and their users, but it just sucks for business.

You idiots are saying Microsoft is violating the laws by integrating Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, and other cool programs into Windows. I know it must be difficult for you use your brains to think being that all your brain power is being used on trying to decipher that ugly looking Linux piece of crap and memorize its command line commands, but try to understand this: Windows is a product of Microsoft. Internet Explorer is a product of Microsoft. Windows Media Player is a product of Microsoft. That means that Microsoft has the right to do whatever they choose with THEIR OWN PRODUCTS. So if they want to integrate or combine two or more of THEIR OWN products together they have every right to do so! I mean think logically people. If what you’re saying is true then I guess also that car makers don’t have the right to integrate radios or CD players into their cars?

Nobody in the world is perfect and nobody writes perfect software. Every piece of software that exists has bugs in it. So stop complaining about all the bugs and flaws in Windows and IE. Besides, Microsoft is working non-stop to release a patch every time a bug is discovered. And why do they bother? They’re not obliged to do any of that as you know. Their license agreement clearly states that you agree to buy their software “as is”. So by patching everything they show you that they do care about their customers. And you’re claim that Unix/Linux is better than Windows because Windows gets so many more viruses is stupid. Of course Windows gets more viruses! If Linux was the dominant OS (as if!) then Linux would be getting all those worms and viruses instead. The people who write those viruses and worms want to attack as many people as possible. That’s why they specifically write for Windows. Because so little people (less than 10%) use Linux, what’s the point of writing a virus for them? It’s not gonna infect a lot of people and will be pointless to the writer. And don’t tell me it’s impossible to write a virus for Linux. A virus is a program. And since you’re claiming that Linux supports all the same kinds of software that Windows does than it obviously supports viruses too. So face it – the ONLY reason Windows gets so many viruses and Linux gets none is cause so little people (losers) use it.

I also don't get why you claim that Windows sucks since programs aren't backward compatible with older versions of Windows. One of the reason WinXP rocks so much is cause it introduced a special cool feature to make programs think you're running an older version of Windows so that they work. THat's it. DUH. By the way, that feature is also available in Win2k SP2.

Also I read a lot about people dissing out Windows Media Series 9. What exactly is wrong with it!? WMP 9 is the best yet. I'd like to hear a suggestion of an alternative Media Player (for Windows) that plays EVERYTHING like WMP does - AVI, DV-AVI, MPEG1/2, WAV, MP3, Audio CD, DVD all in one. And yes I know there are a few inferior players that do this but a) none of them can play DV files with the quality WMP plays them, and b)they all look ugly to me. I can't stand Media Players with those skins that come by default. I need my Media Player to have the classic look (Corporate look as WMP calls the default skin) which is just a little box with a standard view. So do any other players do all this??? NO! That is why WMP rocks.

So stop attacking Microsoft already! Microsoft is one of the best companies out there. I mean just think where we’d be today without Microsoft. We wouldn’t have the capabilities we do today to edit and play digital video, play such graphical games, and do other multimedia stuff. We’d be stuck with a poor and useless command line universe and/or some ugly boring GUI (like one that Linux has). Instead we have great and customizable user friendly Oses with nice interfaces. Windows XP rocks! If you don’t like its new interface then just DISABLE IT! But I guess that’s so easy to do that none of you could figure it out. You were probably looking a command line way of doing it. And for those of you who claim that XP’s GUI consumes too much memory and CPU then what the hell is the point of 3 GHz processors anyway? You morons like the old & boring gray bar GUI? I guess you should because it’s better than what Linux has anyway. And how ugly does Linux look when you boot that piece of shit up. With Windows NT/2k/XP you get a nice logo while the system boots up. With Linux you get a black screen which just lists all the hundreds of things it does and commands it runs while booting up. Really looks nice. NOT! And yes, Win9x does the same thing too, but it's IN THE BACKGROUND. At least it has a nice logo on top of that stuff.
If it wasn’t for Bill Gates we’d still be probably using floppy disks. I guess you people don’t enjoy CD and DVD burning, which Microsoft introduced to the market, and made it really easy to burn with a built in burner since Windows XP. And I would NEVER trust one of those free open source programs to burn a CD or DVD. The program would probably be designed by some Joe Shmo in his basement. I would never trust anything that’s not Easy CD Creator like or Nero like to burn anything. And guess what – none of those is available for Linux. If it weren't for Microsoft we wouldn't have the superb WMV video format in which I just watched a Microsoft high-definition DVD the other day. Why do you think all new DVD Players now have support for Windows Media format? If it sucked, they wouldn’t put it in the players.

And of course train and nuke companies should be using Windows and NOT Linux. Think about it. Linux is hard, Windows is easy. The chances some employee screws up in Linux are much greater than someone screwing up in Windows because Linux is so much more complicated and ugly looking. DUH! If it weren’t for Bill Gates then chances are that the PC industry wouldn’t be where it is today and home computers wouldn’t even be on the level they are today – not to mention the internet.

I’ve also read the posts about and the article “Microsoft’s Really Hidden Files” and I must say that it is really misunderstood. Yes – there are very deeply hidden files with Windows and IE that keep track of visited web sites and continue to keep some of them after IE’s history has been cleared by the user. There is a very good reason for this. If someone brings their computer in for technical support it is possible that these files would make it easier to identify a problem with the computer. If the technician is able to see what web sites the person has visited, they could check if those web sites have had any viruses recently and maybe then identify the problem right away. The user should not be worried about those files being there. They take up extremely minimal space, and can’t really be read by anyone unless they know how to use these files. As for the privacy issue here, there really shouldn’t be one. Having your technician see what web sites you’ve visited is the same as having your doctor know what illness you’ve had. It only helps them. Microsoft’s attitude towards user privacy are deeply misunderstood. They only want what’s best for the customer in the long run and to make sure that they and other companies do not loose money by having their products stolen which is what Digital Rights Management and Palladium will accomplish.

Also stop blaming Microsoft for stealing ideas. They do no such thing. Like those of who dislike that Microsoft named XP the way it did right after Apple released OS X. If youre gonna yell about that then why don’t you also yell at AMD for named their new processors AMD XP, and other companies that do the same. That’s what happens in business. Like it was probably one company’s idea one day to include CD players in cars. Then other companies started doing the same. Is that stealing? Yes. But it’s the kind of stealing that’s ok. If you’re gonna be mad at Microsoft for stealing these ideas, then you might as well be mad at all car companies since all cars have steering wheels. Yet no one claims that it was their invention and others shouldn’t use it.

So stop being jealous of Bill Gates and his money. Start your own company like Bill once did if you don't like Microsoft. Get a life! And your life will surely become much more fun and you will have much more free time if you use Windows.

Also if it weren’t for Bill Gates and Microsoft then a lot of the basic hardware would be much different today. Microsoft introduced to us the Intellimouse with the cool scoll wheel, keyboards with application-specific buttons, awesome game controllers, a TV Photo Viewer, a the new excellent Bluetooth technology.

Oh and another completely retarded thing about Linux and its programs is how a lot of them THE USER HAS TO COMPILE!!! Why on fucking earth would anyone want to have to download the source code for the program and compile it themselves instead of just downloading an installer. You Linux idiots just like making everything harder than it has to be.

And also better start liking Windows Longhorn because once it's out it's gonna change the world like Win95 once did if not more. This version of Windows will be the best yet. I'm already using it half the time and can't wait for the beta to come out. Windows Longhorn has EVERYTHING one can ask for. Great user interface, fantastic multimedia, and much more. You people should get used to it because pretty soon you might start seeing Windows everywhere - cell phones, calculators, more palmpilots, dvd players, cd players, game consoles, etc... You may want Linux to defeat Microsoft but that will never happen. I'd like to hear how you think that will ever happen. However, maybe one day Microsoft will decide to develop their own version of Linux. If that happens then at Linux will finally look and feel good enough to be used by everybody the way Windows is. Also if Microsoft ever decides to do that then for sure they will also make a way for people to run Windows designed programs on it well (not like that Wine piece of shit that exists now).

How the hell do you people even stand using Linux today? Almost nothing works with it they way it is intended. I can go to the store and buy any video card, sound card, firewire card, capture card, printer, scanner, dvdr, etc that I want and it will work on Windows in a matter of minutes (just a quick driver install). But with Linux half of that stuff either doesn't work at all, or works half way, or must be configured by modifying tons of ugly text files, and running command line commands. That is why Linux sucks. Plain and simple.

Windows = Plug, install, play!
Linux = Plug, find, install, edit, configure, and MAYBE play but with less features.
I'd like to see my Pinnacle Pro capture card work on Linux. I'd like to see my GeForce4 work on Linux with all the same features it has in Windows.
How the hell would I use Adobe Premiere and Photoshop in Linux without that Wine thing? (Even with Wine people can't get the new Premiere to run). And don't tell me about using that Gimp program instead of Photoshop. What kindof name is Gimp anyway? Why do Linux programs have such funny and retarded names? Really, why would the general consumer public ever use software whose programs all had such weird names that don’t even describe the program. So don't tell me that Linux is better than Windows because of its stability. Better to have a crash once in a while than to never crash a primitive OS that can't do anything than the basic email, internet, word processing, etc... things.

Here is an example of the suckiness of Linux: recently I installed Mandrake Linux 9.0 on a laptop to test some things out. First it created 3 FUCKING PARTITIONS. This is total bullshit. Why the fuck can’t it be like a normal operating system (*cough* Windows *cough*) and put everything on the same partition. Why does it need a whole separate partition for a swap file!? What a waste of hard disk resources! This is total crap for someone who needs a lot of partitions for a large multi-boot system because of the 4 Primary Partition limit. With Windows being the friendly operating system that it is, it puts the entire thing on one partition and later lets advanced users modify it. Anyway,during the install it went through all my hardware. It couldn’t figure out that I had a GeForce4 440 Go video card and only let me use Generic drivers for it. However once the setup finished and it finally booted up it showed me that I was using the card I was. So why couldn’t it detect it in the first place?? However the graphics still continued to suck badly, not to mention the mouse pointer wasn’t being shown. What a piece of junk.

Finally another reason Linux sucks and will never dominate is because there is just too many of them and all come from different places. The general public would always be too confused as to which version of Linux to choose and why (that is if they had some bizarre reason for wanting Linux). It’s much better to have software be centralized from one company such as Windows is with Microsoft and Mac OS is with Apple. Remember – having TOO MUCH choice can suck too.

Face it. Linux is dead! Best of luck to you freaks as you get left behind in the dark ages as the world moves on to XP, Longhorn, and beyond!

P.S. I'm not what you call a troll. Just someone with a lot of sense, something you folks seem to be lacking. Good day.

xyle_one

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #13 on: 28 August 2003, 03:57 »
damn double post  :mad:

[ August 27, 2003: Message edited by: ecsyle:951 ]


xyle_one

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Buying an iBook (questions)
« Reply #14 on: 28 August 2003, 03:58 »
Could someone delete this assholes post?