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look here fellas

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KernelPanic:
I don't wanna be liek RRS but take a quick look at this:

http://www.timedoctor.org/boycott_winex.php

Refalm:
Yeah... that's a real problem... killing ports to Linux isn't bad if it works flawlessly with WineX, the big problem is that it isn't truly OpenSource. (+ people with no credit card to pay $ 15 are basicly screwed)

Calum:

quote:Boycott WineX: We feel that TransGaming's products based on Windows emulation should be boycotted. Here are our reasons why:

    * TransGaming writes incredibly enthusiastic pieces of propaganda which are mostly discussing software they did not write. The LGPL wine (the original codebase) has been developed for 9+ years, but TransGaming forked their version very recently, and does not contribute code back.
--- End quote ---
surely this is not legal.
quote:
    * TransGaming has consistently claimed that their approach is superior to native porting in every manner. However, native ports are typically more stable and run faster than games in WineX. TransGaming claims that emulation leads to a faster development process, but many native ports have been completed in a matter of weeks or even days.
--- End quote ---
well obviously native programs will run better than emulated ones, due to one layer less of bullshit between the program and its output!
quote:
    * TransGaming once promised to give back code to what was Wine, before it changed to the LGPL license. After it changed, they removed all mention of giving back code from their website.
--- End quote ---
such is the nature of the selfish human. reminds me of lindows...
quote:
    * Note that other companies, like Lindows, and Codeweavers _are_ giving back code, and being good open source citizens. TransGaming encourages the misconception that their product is not an emulator, despite the fact that the founder of the Wine project refers to it as such. In order to replace the term "emulation", they refer to WineX as a "portability technology", stretching definitions of both "portability" and "technology". If TransGaming really wishes to avoid the term "emulation", they should replace it with a phrase that actually reflects what WineX does, such as "compatibility layer".
--- End quote ---
spoke too soon! lindows gives code back? well, anyway, it all sounds a bit shifty to me.
quote:
    * TransGaming's WineX may discourage developers considering native ports from following through with them. Developers may wrongly assume that their game works well enough under WineX that a native version is not necessary.
--- End quote ---
now this is true and so far is by far the most significant point in my opinion.
quote:
    * TransGaming has willingly stripped out all methods of debugging the Wine source base in their packaged releases, greatly slowing down the process of fixing bugs.
--- End quote ---
oh so they are working off the great model of internet exploder. sounds like they emulate more than just Microsoft's operating system...
quote:
    * Support for games varies wildly between releases, and even their vaunted "DirectX 8.0 support" is already one rev behind and about to be a second rev behind. It still doesn't provide access to all the nice features that the cards, DirectX, and the games support.
--- End quote ---
so it's not worth the money then, is it?
quote:
    * Obviously, TransGaming does not, and cannot control the development of DirectX, it's a moving target they can't hit. This is the carrot on the stick for the gamer, to keep you subscribing in the futile hope that some day, the emulation will be near perfect for whatever game you want.
--- End quote ---
like trying to keep up with Microsoft office file formats...
quote:
    * TransGaming promises much, yet delivers little. Many people use WineX to play Half-Life and the Counter-Strike modification. This mod is the most popular mod ever. In fact, if you buy the 'Mandrake Gaming Edition' (seemingly billing a non-native WineX "port" of The Sims as a Linux game), the feature list offers Half-Life: Counter-Strike support. Still, there are many problems with the Half-Life emulation. The most notable of these problems is that the menus do not work, causing a significant drop in user-friendliness.
    * These same Counter-Strike players couldn't play online for some time. Valve had implemented new anti-cheating software which detected Wine users as cheaters.
--- End quote ---
that's fucking nice, isn't it! how pathetic.
quote:
    * As the anti-cheating software demonstrates, TransGaming does not control it's own destiny. If a game works, it is pure coincidence, and it can never be guaranteed that it will work with a future patch.
    * There are many, good arguments against Wine(X) from other people, as well as us.
    * TransGaming had a dirty little affair with Debian.
    * Perhaps the worst problem with TransGaming is the fact they are potentially killing some native ports. WineX already killed a native port of Wizardry 8. The port was in negotiation with Tribsoft, but they stopped negotiating when they found out that it worked (to whatever extent) under WineX
--- End quote ---
they must have thought people would not pay for the native version. who actually does the research into this sort of thing?
quote:

If you feel similarly, we suggest buying native Linux games when you see them in retail stores, and online, at places like TuxGames. Please do not send hate-mail to developers like TimeGate who let rights to their ports go to TransGaming. TimeGate is doing the right thing in offering those rights, it's just a shame that the wrong people got them.
--- End quote ---
i tend to agree with them on principal, but some of their specifics are a bit fanatical. basically i agree that they are killing native ports and that this is something that, once lost, is hard to claw back. on a larger note, wine is free software, wineX is not. This is not ethical in my opinion. they should distribute all of their source code, and let people decide whether it's worth paying whatever money they ask, not just hold people to ransom for a shitty product that could be a lot better if people could bug check the code.

KernelPanic:
You can get it for free but, transgaming have done deals with certain companies like installshield so cetain parts of winex are closed.
Basically you can have the source to a less fuctional version.

vogon:

quote:Originally posted by Calum:
surely this is not legal.
--- End quote ---


Speaking as somewhat of an expert on the topic (see sig), it is.  Up until about 3 months ago, Wine was licensed under a BSD-style license.  When a majority of the developers decided to change the license to LGPL, TransGaming took the last code snapshot before the license change and forked it into what is now "ReWind", which retains a BSD license.  They are now trying to coerce the people who voted for the license change and contribute to the LGPL tree (these people include most of the top contributors to the project) into dual-licensing their patches under LGPL/BSD, in exchange for TransGaming code being backported to ReWind (where it can be merged into the LGPL tree).  Legal?  Yes.  Ethical?  Most definitely not.

(and props go to [email protected] for managing to pull this thread out of thin air and report it to the rest of the gang.)

Edits:
1. The actual BSD-style license that Wine (and now ReWind) are licensed under is the X11.
2. TransGaming itself did not fork ReWind, but rather the developers who preferred the X11 license (some of whom may have been working for TransGaming.)

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: vogon ]

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