Microsoft is a good company, really

[Zombie9920]

Come to think of it...a sophisicated virus write could write a virus that would log a user off(as if they manually logged off) and log them in as root and do some nasty work right as root logs in. Remember, if Linux ever became dominante OEM's would not pre-install the OS with a root password(for distros that aren't always logged in as root) because a consumer wouldn't know the password. The OEM could pre-install the OS w/a root password and include the password in the documentation for the computer but most people don't read all of the documentation therefore that idea wouldn't work so their best bet would be not to ship a pre-installed Linux distro with a root password. You have to remember, most people are idiots when it comes to computers. Those idiots aren't even really capable of properly maintaning a simple Windows installation let alone a complex Linux installation.

Idiots are capable of being the downfall of security for any OS.

[Calum]

quote:Originally posted by KiDwithIsSuEs 00:
Calum

We dont need to bin, we need to ban this user, as everyone can see this is a Anti-Microsoft website and it should stay this way. Yes, some people do say good points about M$ but they dont go around 'trolling' and putting up everything wheter its crap or a point... this is very anoying and a waste of space.   :rolleyes:  

this site is very much about free speech.
i agree we should dump useless posts and threads as soon as possible (like posts with WINDOWSROOLXORZ 500 times in them for instance) but a thread like this should not be censored. simply read the posts! most if not all have several interesting points to make.

if we ban and bin people simply for disagreeing with the fundamental concept of the site we'd spend five minutes where all of us who are left simply say "yep, i agree" and then we might as well all go home!

progress only comes through a lively interchange of ideas which can only come from a liberal attitude towards free speech.

on another note may i just mention a guy at my work and something he said last week...

bear in mind this guy runs an entire "technology" company in england, and not that small a one either. he was talking to a colleague (i overheard, as i sit close to them) about viruses. he was saying how his antivirus had picked up a virus on his home computer but couldn't remove it because it was infecting a protected system file (now that's fucked for a start! a virus can have access to your system files, but you yourself can't, even to get rid of the virus? yeah, what a great system that is!) anyway, he said he didn't really care if somebody was able to break into his computer because he had nothing secret on there anyway.

I didn't tell him that his computer could be used by the writer of such a "virus" (a worm actually), to participate in DoS attacks and get him in trouble when it's traced back to his IP address, nor did i say that he'd better have backups of all his files since an attacker could gain write (and destroy) access as well as read access.

this sort of thing though is more than most windows users can be bothered to think about, and that's why viruses are so prolific.

[Laukev7]

quote: You are right that you would have to execute the virus for it to strap to your boot-sector but think about it like this. If Linux became dominant the same idiots who open E-Mail attachments from unknown senders would be using Linux. The same idiots who will open any file he/she downloads from the net would be using Linux.

Those idiots would be using distros like Lindows that always have you logged in as Root so it is easier to install things. So the OS wouldn't really protect the idiots.

Obviously, if a user does not use the protections at his disposal, then yes, he will be infected. Fortunately, most Linux distros give you a user account by default, and idiot users would probably be too ignorant to log in a root account.

But never mind Linux, look at Mac OS X, which is a far better option IMO. You are logged in Administrator mode by default, which is not root mode, and allows users to install programs easily (just slide them in /Applications folder). If an idiot does not create a user account, and gets infected, then only the applications get infected, not the whole system. And you can still run applications in user mode without installing them, by just sliding the folder in the home directory and executing the .app file. At any rate, neither admin nor users are allowed to overwrite the Mac MBR (if there is such a thing).

 

quote:  Come to think of it, you don't have to be root to mess with a Linux bootloader(you can run a MBR cleaning utility under a user account and wipe out the bootloader in Linux)

No. You have to be root to do that. Or under a user account they would ask you for a password.

 

quote: therefore anybody could launch an infected RPM and get their boot sector infected.  

You need to be root to do that. The reasons you mention are part of the reasons why Linux user dislike Lindows.

And I know that Linux is not UNIX. By the way, UNIX is too broad nowadays to be called an OS.

[Laukev7]

quote:Originally posted by Viper:
Come to think of it...a sophisicated virus write could write a virus that would log a user off(as if they manually logged off) and log them in as root and do some nasty work right as root logs in. Remember, if Linux ever became dominante OEM's would not pre-install the OS with a root password(for distros that aren't always logged in as root) because a consumer wouldn't know the password. The OEM could pre-install the OS w/a root password and include the password in the documentation for the computer but most people don't read all of the documentation therefore that idea wouldn't work so their best bet would be not to ship a pre-installed Linux distro with a root password. You have to remember, most people are idiots when it comes to computers. Those idiots aren't even really capable of properly maintaning a simple Windows installation let alone a complex Linux installation.

Idiots are capable of being the downfall of security for any OS.

A virus could log a user off, but it could not type the password to log in root mode. Or else it would have to take advantage of a security bug which would be patched in a matter of days by the open source community.

And what you said about root password not being included in the computer completely demolishes all your past arguments about users running as root.

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by Calum:
this sort of thing though is more than most windows users can be bothered to think about, and that's why viruses are so prolific.

Thats right. Because the majority of people who use Windows don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to computers.

Now you have to ask yourself, do Linux gurus really want Linux to become dominant? If it ever did(which it isn't likely to) those same idiots would be buying computers with dummied down Linux installs that wouldn't offer the only security advantage that Linux has(root restriction) because the computers would be pre-loaded with distros like Lindows that always have you logged in as root and there would be no root password set for the boxes that use a distro with User/Root privalages. The loss of security, the fact that Linux is more difficult to use than Windows would be enough to make most people hate Linux(even though it is their fault that they don't know how to use it so they have to have a securityless version of it).

All of the people who would start to hate it would extensivley bash it and ruin the myth that Linux is more secure than Windows.

[Laukev7]

quote: If it ever did(which it isn't likely to) those same idiots would be buying computers with dummied down Linux installs that wouldn't offer the only security advantage that Linux has(root restriction) because the computers would be pre-loaded with distros like Lindows that always have you logged in as root and there would be no root password set for the boxes that use a distro with User/Root privalages.

Well, I for one would much rather that the Mac OS take over the market than Linux. But in the case you mentioned, it is OSes like Lindows that we don't want to become mainstream, not Linux.

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by Laukev7:


A virus could log a user off, but it could not type the password to log in root mode. Or else it would have to take advantage of a security bug which would be patched in a matter of days by the open source community.

And what you said about root password not being included in the computer completely demolishes all your past arguments about users running as root.

What? That doesn't demolish anything because there are distros that do in fact run as root at all times(like Lindows). Distros like that are the ones that would most likely be pre-loaded on most OEM computers.

The OEM's who chose to install other distros(ones that don't always run as root) wouldn't set a root password due to the idiotic level of the people who would be buying the comps.

Still, the ones that always run as root would be the dominant distros simply because they are the easiest to install stuff on. Consumers want easy.

An advanced user would still install his own distro(one with root/user access) and would have a root password....but remember....90% of the people in this world are not advanced users.

[ September 27, 2003: Message edited by: Viper ]

[Zombie9920]

quote:Originally posted by Laukev7:


Well, I for one would much rather that the Mac OS take over the market than Linux. But in the case you mentioned, it is OSes like Lindows that we don't want to become mainstream, not Linux.

Sadly, stuff like Lindows would be the dominator because of the lack of skill most consumers have.

[Laukev7]

quote:Originally posted by Viper:



What? That doesn't demolish anything because there are distros that do in fact run as root at all times(like Lindows). Distros like that are the ones that would most likely be pre-loaded on most OEM computers.

The OEM's who chose to install other distros(ones that don't always run as root) wouldn't set a root password due to the idiotic level of the people who would be buying the comps.

Still, the ones that always run as root would be the dominant distros simply because they are the easiest to install stuff on. Consumers want easy.

An advanced user would still install his own distro(one with root/user access) and would have a root password....but remember....90% of the people in this world are not advanced users.

[ September 27, 2003: Message edited by: Viper ]

That's why Mac OS X is a better choice for users than either Lindows or non-root Linux distros, for the reasons I already mentioned.

[mushrooomprince]

Microsoft is a bad company because they make a huge effort to keep us in software communism.

[Laukev7]

quote:Originally posted by mushrooomprince:
Microsoft is a bad company because they make a huge effort to keep us in software communism.

No, Linux is software communism. Microsoft are  soviet communists.

[insomnia]

quote:Originally posted by Laukev7:


No, Linux is software communism. Microsoft are  soviet communists.

Microsoft is Bush-like capitalism!
Communism is it's opposite.

[Laukev7]

quote:Originally posted by insomnia:


Microsoft is Bush-like capitalism!
Communism is it's opposite.

No. Bush-like capitalism is not capitalism; it is corporatism (read: fascism).

And Soviet communism is just as bad as Bush corporatism, except the opposite.

[shuiend]

Damn Laukev7 you beet me to your last comment about Micrshit being communist.  Microsoft Corporation you are a moron. I personally hate microsoft b/c they make horrible buggy software and restrict my rights as a user. The only thing i think Gates is good at is business. HE took his company from nothing to everything. That is what all companies try to do and there is nothing wrong with that. I at one time was promicrosoft. That was back when i only knew of Mac OS 6 or 7. I am not quite sure. Back then Apple did not have a nice pretty interface.  I started learning about Linux about 2 years ago from somewhere. I dont even know where. Back then it was nothing that it is today. I had trouble with almost everything in it. It was around then that i also started to learn how Microsoft was evil and destroyed many other companies. Because of thei actions and their horribly made software I decided to stick to Linux. Since i started my knowledge and understanding of computers has grown outstandingly. Linux has grown and been inproved since then. I recently got to try OS X by apple and i now want a mac but i am a cheap AMDer so i cant afford one. Over all Calum has all ready disproven all the points in your post Microsoft Corporqation. So we have it that u are a Moron

[Calum]

okay, the wankers win.

silly me for thinking we could have a sensible discussion.

now i remember why i don't visit here that often anymore.

dickheads...