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Originally posted by TheQuirk: I Just Want Attention:
Before I address this: what's going on there is not ethical cleansing.
No its a theft of a natural reasourse that belongs to Iraq and not the U.S.
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In the same light, the US did not kill millions of people.
Millions, thousands it doesn't matter its still wrong! Why are we even debating this. Its always coming up.
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If by "millions" you mean 2,000,000 people or more, then you're saying we killed every two people in twenty-five people. That's a 1:12.5 ratio. That's an average of 15.4 kills per soldier, assuming there are 130,000 soldiers, ALL in combact roles. In truth, there are cooks, engineers, drivers, etc. Even if you claim half of those kills are attributed to plane bombings, then that's still 7.7 kills/soldier, which is ridiculous--especially when it's done "silently," with no one knowing about it (except for you, obviously).
I have posted the information SHOWING the U.S KILLING, HURTING and HUMILIATING Iraqi civilians.
Its not up to me if you ignore that information. The same people here that have that appathy might as well ignore the holocaust. Its the same exuses.
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Case in point: what the Janjaweed are (well, "were") doing--behind CLOSED COURTAINS, in a country no one actually pays all that much attention to, has been uncovered. You think no one would notice 2,000,000 dying all of a sudden, in a zone that's constantly in the news? Geeze.
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Geeze yourslef!
MOST of those 'militas' are made up of fathers and sons defending a country from occupation forces. It is in the news and on the internet, heck Moore has made a film. Lots of people HAVE noticed people dying in Iraq. Heck they knew before the invasion what would happen and because of this its a non argument. Its a non debate.
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I would reply to your post bit-by-bit if it wasn't that big of a pain, but since it is, I'll just give you my general view (which I think should mostly respond to what you're saying).
Its a pain reading some of your replies. But hay i'm still going to respond
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The Iraqi people did not ask the US to invade Iraq and remove Saddam. Whether they wanted the US to commit this or not is debatable, but not in this thread.
Then why even write that?
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With this in mind, the next thing that the US did was invade Iraq--under multiple pretexts, including the removal of Saddam
Thats an exucse along with the WMD's with no proof and was NOT a viable reason.
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(oil isn't an official reason, so I won't include it).
It is now that the information is so blaintently obvious.
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Be it (morally) right or wrong, this has already happened, and is irreversible.
Yes I do agree. So why doesn't the occupation just leave. Ah yes can't leave without 'protecting U.S. interests.'
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Seeing as how the U.S forces are the liberators/invaders/freestyle rappers on tour, and are there to (supposedly, partially, whatever) remove Hussein from his reign of power, it's more than appropriate for them to change the flag to reflect that the state is no longer under Hussein's leadership.
'Its more than appropriate' is it? They invaded. Killed innocent people, raveged the land and humiliated them as well so that makes it OK for them to change the flag.
So when Hitler ivaded, Poland, France and Germant it was ok for him to change the flags of their counrty? Simply because they were now under hitlers rule and the flag no longer represented those countries leaders and beliefs?
Get real! Oppressers and ivaders do not have the right for anything! Expecialy in this war and in this day and age where History and knowledge is abundant!
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It might be morally wrong, but it's warranted for.
Yep, I can see that Nazi flag flying in Europe.
It was not just 'morally' wrong IT IS wrong and no it was not warrented for. Americans are NOT Iraqies.
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I'm not saying what happened is good or bad--all I'm saying is that this was part of the "deal,"
What deal? The deal to have there reasources stolen from them. To replace on tyrant with another but only this time with more force? If thats a 'deal' then I can't wait till the U.S. gets the same 'deal.' Maby you'll finaly learn what others had to go through.
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so to speak. What happened happened, and this is the next logical step.
Were talking about an invasion force that has the same motives as Nazi germany and your stating that this is a 'logical step.'
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There's no protesting it--this action *has to take place*.
Thats right. A pile of sand in a country that can't even defend itself and the U.S. HAD to take 'action.'
Your right though. There is no protesting! This action SHOULD NEVER of taken place!
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Iraq, by itself, is in no shape to do such things. This is the cold, hard truth.
Yep I bet not even the mighty U.S. couldn't turn around and slaughter themselves and pawn off all their natural reasources. It does take a savage to do all the plundering.
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The infastructure was destroyed (by the US). There is no census, and as such, an election can not take place.
Of course not. It can never take place under a puppet council or goverment that is governed by a forren country.
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Including an election on a flag.
Of course it can! Once that puppet council is removed and the occupation forces leave.
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The occupying forces and the UN are trying to fix this,
When Iraq handed over their country to the people, you know what happend? Nothing. All that has happend is a few american heads left. The occupation force is STILL there and the puppet coucil IS STILL taking orders from a forren invader. So much for 'fixing the problem.'
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but this will take time.
A wound will not heal so long as you are always opening it. Remove the occupation and the puppets and then a Iraq can finnaly repair itself!
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Once a real government rises, they'll be free to change the flag, or whatever else they wish.
'Once a real goverment rises.' correct. but ether way its STILL Iraqies that can change the flag not the U.S.
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This isn't the first time this has happened in history, and it won't be the last (Lukashenko and Belarus come to mind. Once he is outta there, it's pretty obvious the flag will revert itself to white-red-whire.)
And even in that instance shows it was not right! So shouldn't we have learn't from history that invasion isn't correct. It is proven that those that do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.
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To recap (I don't know if I made myself clear): What's done is done. The Iraqis (as a whole) are in no shape to do what they wish, but this is being fixed.
They were 'in shape' before the invasion. Thats even under saddam andf they will be in shape once the invaders of that country leave. But up untill then its still the Iraqie's decsion on what happens with the flag not the U.S. What the U.S. should do to fix the problem is leave.
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Your demand of allowing the Iraqis to pick the flag is impossible, but is being worked on.
What demand. I simply stated who has rights on changing any flag. That would be the Iraqie people not the U.S.
Its also upto the people to choose their goverment and call their own elections.
All this can be done once the U.S. leaves and takes their mess with them.
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Totally different standard. The old Iraq flag represented Iraq and Saddam's rule.
The new one represents Iraq. The US flag represents the US, and has no mark of any president. It's politically neutral, you could say.
For many Iraqies the old flag represented the country and not just saddam. As you yourself claim that the U.S. flag represents your country and is nutral to you even when bush has now changed the meaning of that flag!
For alot of people the U.S. flag means death and not freedom. So given that should an outside force invade your country and change your flag simply because to the invaders your flag represents bush?
