US/Iraq

[Stryker]

quote: some intervention is nessaary but not as much as america does
also thanks calum for defending me and saying i am not a terrorist cause i aint. (besides maybe what they do in fight club but instead of finacial buildings do redmond washington)

that was how your post ended, i didn't see any comment. But maybe i have a problem or something. I do not think you should be in charge of such an operation though. You can't just destroy (physically) a company you do not like. I mean, if you owned a pornography shop should i go and burn all of your items because i dont agree with the concept? I'm against microsoft also, dont get me wrong. But i'm not going to break in and do anything.

[Bazoukas]

Physical damage to buildings WITHOUT hurming anyone for you is not an option.
Consider this though.

 If lets say you had the chance to hack into MS and release all their Source Code world wide, all their Memos (we know from the past how dirty those are), all their future plans, would you do it? Knowing of course that you would never get caught simply because you are THE hacker. Best there is in the world.

(Just a note to all possible MS dickheads employees. I am opposed in blowing up buildings and shit like that. So Fuck off with my blessings.)

[shuiend]

to stryker and bazoukas. i am not saying that i would go and blow up microsoft. if i was going to do it or be incharge of destroying it thats how i probally would go about doing it. actually i would probally use a EMP(Electro Maganetic Pulse) to go about doing it because that would only destroy the electrical parts of microsoft. I do not think it is maybe the best way of getting rid of microsoft i am only voicing my opinions in the subject as thats how i would personally have it done.

I will no longer be posting on this topic because i personal opinions as sparked so much debate. I am sorry for any discomfort i have caused and i did not mean to hurt any one with my opinions. Good Night

[shuiend]

to stryker and bazoukas. i am not saying that i would go and blow up microsoft. if i was going to do it or be incharge of destroying it thats how i probally would go about doing it. actually i would probally use a EMP(Electro Maganetic Pulse) to go about doing it because that would only destroy the electrical parts of microsoft. I do not think it is maybe the best way of getting rid of microsoft i am only voicing my opinions in the subject as thats how i would personally have it done.

I will no longer be posting on this topic because i personal opinions as sparked so much debate. I am sorry for any discomfort i have caused and i did not mean to hurt any one with my opinions. Good Night

[Bazoukas]

No dude. Its all good. I didnt find any of this offensive.

  Hell this must be the only Forum so far that I seen that people dont curse at each other when it comes to politics.

  Its all good with me manno  

[Chooco]

i never thought of it that way. sort of strange how afgans hate the US more than Russia even though the US saved them from Russia.

[Calum]

true, this is a forum where political discussion can happen without descending into namecalling, i would say, even though i was ready yesterday to agree with VoidMain that politics should stay off this board. i changed my mind. so long as the politics stay in one or two threads, then fine.

Also, I must post in reply to VoidMain and to others generally.

VoidMain, once more i hope i did not offend you. i agree with everything you said in your three posts since my last one, however i just think that any US action in foreign countries should be UN approved, unless actual hard copy offensive action has already been taken. the eleventh of september thing is such action, however it has yet to be proved that any particular country was at fault, and as you know, once the US air force had levelled a lot of Afghanistan (unfairly in my opinion, but i do not know much about the USAF, and i am guessing you know a bit more about it than me!), the US did admit that afghanistan itself was not the enemy.

I just think countries should give each other the benefit of the doubt while still being ready to act at any time, rather than blindly acting to make a show of it.

the prime minister of england is now coming out and saying war with iraq is required, even though most people here are of the same opinion i am, they don't want a war, think we should instead be keeping a close eye on iraq, and that the UN should be ready to take action at the drop of a hat.

our ptime minister however claims he will be able to produce documentary evidence, in the next two weeks, that iraq plans to wage war against us. we shall see.

[voidmain]

Look, nobody wants a war (well, people like bin laden appear to like it but no sane person) but I don't forsee a world without them any time soon, one could certainly hope/dream.  And yes I happen to know a lot about the USAF, especially since I served for 15 years with them. And no you didn't offend me at all. But we do seem to be miles apart on our perception of things and the truth probably lies somewhere in between.  

Now there are some things that I think you are a little farther off than I.  For instance "leveled most of Afghanistan", nope, not even close to being true. "Admiting that Afghanistan was not the enemy" makes it sounds like this came about after we went in to get bin laden and the Taliban. Well it was stated emphatically up front that Afghanistan was not the enemy. It was bin laden and al-quada.

Now normally I would agree with you about the "first strike" thing, except if that first strike would be delivered by terrorists using nuclear weapons. I do agree with you that we would need proof that the nuclear weapons exist (or close to being in existence) and that there is a real threat of them being deployed.  Now this wouldn't be an issue if Saddam would not have kicked out the UN inspectors. The US and Russia have inspectors to keep tabs on each others nuclear arsenals.

But I do believe we need to see more proof (and the poles agree).  And I believe before anything drastic happens we will have the proof.  I believe both the U.S. and the U.K. (and other western countries) are currently in good hands and they are going to great pains to gain support for and to justify anything that they do.

[Calum]

i agree, once more with you.

my inaccuracies there can be blamed entirely on the media (TV, radio and newspapers) in both Australia and britain, all that stuff you said was inaccurate is second, third, fourth hand reports i have got from those sources.

The media was quite clear in Australia in the month of Sept last year that the US was striking against Afghanistan (and also that it was a good idea! there were quite a few racist attacks on people of middle eastern origin reported around that time).

also, those media are still confusing the issue. i read in the london evening standard yesterday that iraq will allow any UN inspectors to go anywhere they choose so long as they provide evidence that those places contain nuclear development facilities. (note this is not reasonable suspicion, they say evidence)They also said iraq is hesitant to cooperate fully because it is pissed off about the sanctions since 1991, but then a couple of hours later, a speculator on Newsnight was saying that iraq will not allow any inspectors anywhere and this is why sanctions are still in place. who to believe?

also, re our premiers gathering support, i do think they are doing that, and doing it in the right way too, however i do not think we will get an unbiased view of the whole truth from something like a government, which by definition has too high an invested interest in the issues to remain objective.

[KernelPanic]

quote:But I do believe we need to see more proof (and the poles agree). And I believe before anything drastic happens we will have the proof. I believe both the U.S. and the U.K. (and other western countries) are currently in good hands and they are going to great pains to gain support for and to justify anything that they do.

I'm sorry Voidman but the UK is not in good hands.
*Prepare for a UK politics rant*

Look at our public sevices:

Teachers are leaving due to poor pay, condiditons and stress due to ridiculous bureaucracy.

Firemen (and women) are onthe verge of national strike due to poor pay. These guys go into burnigng buildings everyday and use some very modern equipment. Give them a proffesional pay packet.

Our military spending is so high that things have to be bought just to use surplus money.

Our nurses and other health staff are treated like crap.

The states of our roads is unbelievable. I've only seen worse in America (whose roads are bad). Germany has perfect roads and they don't ewven pay road tax. In fact the average german spends less tax per month than us, full stop.

That is just part of the problem. Sorry for that off-topic rant but it really does annoy me. Problem is, it just gets accepted like it should happen!

[Calum]

germany is closer to the ruhr, and so can make more money out of the same thing than the UK which is further away and seperated by the sea.

the only main export the UK has is Scotland's oil, which is mined for England by Americans.

The UK's main mistake economically is attempting to sustain the NHS, however i do not have any solution to the mess this has been allowed to run into. action should have been started about 1953 to stop what has happened happening.

roads: the UK is not big. how many roads can we fit in? "road widening scheme"? country narrowing sheme i say!

also, US citizens likely hear a lot less of what goes on in the UK than UK citizens hear about what goes on in the USA, so it is kind of okay for US citizens to say things like 'the uk is in good hands'.

[KernelPanic]

quote:Originally posted by Calum:
germany is closer to the ruhr, and so can make more money out of the same thing than the UK which is further away and seperated by the sea.

the only main export the UK has is Scotland's oil, which is mined for England by Americans.

The UK's main mistake economically is attempting to sustain the NHS, however i do not have any solution to the mess this has been allowed to run into. action should have been started about 1953 to stop what has happened happening.

roads: the UK is not big. how many roads can we fit in? "road widening scheme"? country narrowing sheme i say!

also, US citizens likely hear a lot less of what goes on in the UK than UK citizens hear about what goes on in the USA, so it is kind of okay for US citizens to say things like 'the uk is in good hands'.

I understand.

and about your last paragraph, that is partly the reason I made this post. I wasn't getting at Voidman for not knowing either.

ps. are you on your lunch break now?

[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: Tux ]

[flap]

quote:Originally posted by VoidMain:
I believe both the U.S. and the U.K. (and other western countries) are currently in good hands and they are going to great pains to gain support for and to justify anything that they do.

The U.S. in good hands? Huh?

[voidmain]

Now I didn't say that none of the countries have some serious and difficult internal issues. Some of which are very complex. We certainly have a big gripes about many things in the US. However, do any of the people have a reasonable and easy solution to any of the problems or accurately understand how the problems got to the point they are? I say the number of complainers FAR outweigh the number of problem solvers. Sure there may be a fairly easy fix to one problem but does it adversely effect another issue?

It's very easy to name call, it's very difficult to solve all the problems. And yes, generally speaking I think our countries are in very good hands by people who seriously mean to do well. I don't have the answers, and certainly know the answers are not easy, and they very possibly may be painful. But if some of these issues that can be painful to address are not addressed they could very well turn out to be far more than merely painful.

[flap]

quote:Originally posted by VoidMain:
And yes, generally speaking I think our countries are in very good hands by people who seriously mean to do well.

Yeah, and Bill Gates donates software to schools out of the goodness of his heart.