US/Iraq

[Aaron Ni]

Lecture time!

People ask "Why does everyone hate us?" a lot in these days, you may have asked that yourself, and the answer is quite simple.

People hate US citezens because of the acts the US Government does in US's name.

The US Government backed Osama Bin Laden against the Russian onslaught in their "Vietnam."  Afterwards the USG drops the funding and denies any help to Afghanistan (Sp?) after the war is over.  If a foriegn country enabled your military to fight against a better equiped enemy then dumped all lines of communication after it was said and done wouldnt you be pissed?  Your left cleaning up the mess that the foriegn country made possible.

As stated in posts ahead of me the USG is very nosy, so nosy that they act as if their in charge of the world and they have to be the "Police."  The plan for a regime change in Iraq is more of a joke in my opinion.  USG sets up puppet government in Iraq so it doesnt look like they're in control of Iraq's government.  Then again, I'm not the type who listens to all the misinformation thrown around on CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC (Yuck!) or any other mass media glory hound.

As far as the whole 9-11/Wtc/Terror attacks go I'm not stating my opinion on it.  The last time I did that was a week after it happened, I was banned from three different forums, kicked out of a Yahoo group and physically ejected from a Legion Hall in the downtown area.  

I really think this post is a bit raw and it takes me a bit to get everything laid out correctly so this wont be my last post.

Dang, I thought I wouldnt get into a political discussion here of all places!    :rolleyes:  

EDIT: To bazoukas and Stryker.

Someone has plans being finetuned as we speak so stop with your public discussion.  PM me if you wish but dont expect anything big.

[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: Aaron-V2.3 ]

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by flap:


Yeah, and Bill Gates donates software to schools out of the goodness of his heart.

Your last name wouldn't be Clinton by any chance would it?

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by Aaron-V2.3:
Then again, I'm not the type who listens to all the misinformation thrown around on CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC (Yuck!) or any other mass media glory hound.

Good! You should be watching FOX News and listening to Rush Limbaugh.  

[flap]

quote:Originally posted by VoidMain:


Your last name wouldn't be Clinton by any chance would it?

I don't understand the inference.

[Calum]

he's saying you're a lily livered liberal.

this is quite interesting because VoidMain talks a lot of sense, however many right wingers i hear talk horseshit that is poorly thought through and from a skewed perspective. On the other hand left wingers tend to be a lot more radical and have good ideas... which will never get put into practice.

Maybe it's a cultural thing, VoidMain;s opinions remind me of that rarest of things, a realist socialist!

I agree with Aaron by and large as well, just wanted to mention that.

hey, maybe some of you can satisfy my curiosity, do the yanks still all think that Europe is full of "commies"?

[psyjax]

quote:Originally posted by VoidMain:


Good! You should be watching FOX News and listening to Rush Limbaugh.    

I'm not a fan of eather. Weather you lean to the right, or lean to the left you should get your news from Reuters, or the AP.

They are probably the last remaining unbiased news sources out there.

I mean, FOX news is soooo slanted it's sick. It's like I'm watching a Right Wing white bread back scratching party.

CNN is a bunch of shit, it' so sensational now adays, they don't have any slant except for that which ups their rateings.

MSNBC is pure crap. Nothing good comes from there.

I get my news on the AP.

[voidmain]

Well flap is only 15 (from what I remember of his profile before he closed it up). But that doesn't mean there aren't smart 15 year olds, heck my daughter is a smart 14 year old. But they have the disadvantage of not experiencing first hand events that many of the rest of us have experienced. And because of that they get what they know from history lessons taught in school.

Now from what I have seen many schools tend to be more liberal than conservative and there has been a lot of extremely idiotic liberal thing happening in a lot of schools in the news that just go against all of my morals. However, I won't get into that, schools are great but I wonder if they are teaching the "impartial" history as well as they could.

Now having said that I don't claim to be a member of any party.  But in the last 20 years if I had to choose it would be today's republican party. Mainly because my beliefs fall in line with what today's republican party "claim" to believe in and care about (more than 20-30+ years ago I would probably claimed to be a Democrat as the parties have nearly flip flopped in that amount of time). I come from a background of high morals and high family values. If the Democrats start making sense and say things I agree with them I'll go with them.  

I thought Reagan was a great president. I thought Bush(1) really cared and tried to do the right things. Then when it came time for reelection Clinton and Perot entered the race. Now I thought Bush(1) was good (and I went to war with him) but economics appeared to be the bigger issue at the moment and I am going to make myself look really stupid here but I liked what I heard from Perot when it came to economics.  Who would know more about bringing the country out of debt than a Billionaire?  

I absolutely despised Clinton and every time he talked I couldn't help but think he was lying through his teeth (little did I know he would be accused of that more than once, and in court).  And being admitted draft dodger didn't give me great assurance that he would be an acceptable "Commander in Chief" (I don't know if I could have gone to war with him as the leader as I *would* have been suspicious of the reasons with him in charge).  

So I was left with a decision between Bush(1) and Perot.  Now many of us got together and did much discussion about Perot and Bush(1) and convinced each other to vote for him.  Turned out it was a big mistake.  I believe if Perot had not run, Bush(1) would have been a two term president. Instead, Clinton was elected as what has to be one of the most embarrassing  presidents I have ever seen. Then I began to wonder if I was insane when he was reelected.  I didn't think it was remotely possible.  Somebody isn't getting the same information I am or I'm just a complete fucking idiot (many of you might think the latter).

Now Bush(2) is much like his father when it comes to morals and patriotism. I like that. I do believe that his father was a better president to this point, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and see how the rest of his term goes. I can say that I believe we are in far better shape with him than we would have been with Clinton or Gore. You can speculate all you want but there's not much of a way to prove anything.

Now, obviously I am wasting my time typing this because everyone gets their information from different places, has their own views, their own beliefs, their own values, etc etc etc.  Some of you are going to call me ignorant, some may even agree with me.  So what's the point?  I'm just giving you some of what *I* believe in and what is important to *me*, and it makes me feel better. It certainly won't change anyone's minds..

[voidmain]

quote:Originally posted by psyjax:


I'm not a fan of eather. Weather you lean to the right, or lean to the left you should get your news from Reuters, or the AP.

They are probably the last remaining unbiased news sources out there.

I mean, FOX news is soooo slanted it's sick. It's like I'm watching a Right Wing white bread back scratching party.

CNN is a bunch of shit, it' so sensational now adays, they don't have any slant except for that which ups their rateings.

MSNBC is pure crap. Nothing good comes from there.

I get my news on the AP.

I do agree with you.  I also happen to like FOX and Limbaugh for pure entertainment. Some things they say I really disagree with and their extreme bias in some areas almost make me sick, but I do slant more toward the right now so I like most of what they have to say.  They are *heavily* right wing slanted. I also believe CNN is somewhat left wing slanted and MSNBC is heavily left wing slanted. AP is nuetral as you say, but boring. Still best for facts. The networks just put their biased spin on things.

Now one thing that blew my mind was when Geraldo Rivera switched to FOX.  It was like being invaded by the anti-christ.  I still don't understand how that one came about.  He was *extremely* liberally biased on his previous show, and then to switch to FOX was beyond belief. I think he has been noticably neutral since the move and may just be a better news person than he ever has been because of it.

[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]

[flap]

I'm 21 actually, and deeply disturbed by the content of that last post.

Bush a good president? Reagan?? Sorry if I missed the joke somewhere.

Although I have one question - if you're such a fan of these right-wing 'values' what are you doing supporting free software; an entirely left wing idea?

[voidmain]

If you think OSS is a "left wing idea" you are surely disturbed.  Ah, 21, college age, even *more* likely to be exposed to left wing bias. Do you have your escape route to Canada planned? You could use the same one Clinton used if you like...

[flap]

No I think *Free Software* is a left wing idea. GNU certainly is. You do know what an evil, immoral, leftist liberal Richard Stallman is, don't you?

[voidmain]

Maybe he is, and I can also tell you there are a lot of things about RMS that I don't like. I do like the OSS idea and I do like GNU.  And I believe I also said I am not tied to everything right and hate everything left. I like what makes sense (the best of both worlds). It just so happens that there are more right wing things that I agree with than left. Maybe this time next year the opposite will be true.

I can also tell you that during my later years in the military (that has to be a right wing operation if there ever was one) that we used *much* open source software.  In fact I had Linux on every one of our PCs for free access to our graphical UNIX servers (several years ago now). And GNU software was VERY popular.

Now, this is precisely why I don't like to see politics on this site.  We can argue all day long and both of us will continue to think we are right. Neither of us has much of a chance of changing each other's minds and it does no more than get one's blood pressure up.  I would surely vote in favor of a ban on politcal discussion so we can combine forces in the better good of wiping out Microsoft and spreading the word of OSS.

[flap]

Point noted; blood pressure dropping.

To be honest I had gained the general impression that you were right leaning but always imagined you to be something like a Libertarian. That is, as far as I can gather from what I know about them (not much), basically right wing but less populist and more individualist than traditional right parties, and placing more importance on personal freedom.

I'm just really surprised at you supporting an institution like the Republican Party and people like Bush, who are a massive reason why big businesses like Microsoft, and all the other giants who are in bed with that party, continue to get away with screwing everyone over.

[ September 04, 2002: Message edited by: flap ]

[Calum]

i agree. and i would not be in favour of stopping politics on this site because look! the political discussions are some of the most eloquent and interesting threads here!  

[eradicator]

to tell the truth, i haven't seen one news article about the US/Iraq thing. nor do i know anyone online or offline talking about it. i guess it's not too important?

anyways, i doubt we will go to war with anyone, americans are cheap. and war is expensive.