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Originally posted by Calum:
VoidMain, you are one of the best political debaters here! a bit hard headed maybe, but that's a survival characteristic...
Thanks (I think), but I really would rather debate Windows vs Linux.
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anyway, one exception i have to what you said:- 'no casualties'? do you mean no civilian casualties? do you mean no american casualties? do you mean that hundreds of iraqi deaths are okay? (i think that casualties are casualties even if they are noncivilian 'enemies').
No, I meant little or no casualties counting all human beings equally. I believe the Isreal example had only one death (total). If I recall it was an extremely late evening or early morning surgical strike of a nuclear plant using F-16s. The plant was under development and was "suspected" of being used or at least dual used as a nuclear weapons plant if I recall but I would have to check my facts. It's been a fews years but I do recall it happening and to tell you the truth I had forgotten about it until it was brought up by the congressman in that one sentence.
Now it's hard to believe that even at that early morning hour for such an important item as this that there would have only been a single guard in the place. I would have to check my facts on this as well (and I probably should have done that before posting this), but you would have to agree that in a case like this casualties would be small right?
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This is like those animal rights activists who plant a bomb in a research lab because they test on animals there, but then the bomb kills a security guard. they may say they were justified, and i agree entirely with their cause however in that instance i think they were very very wrong to resort to a destructive form of action, and the death of the guard proves it. those activists might not have felt satisfied to protest peacefully and through the normal channels (which is something you still have the right to do in america i think) but their impatience has ruined the public credibility of peaceful people who feel the same way as they do.
I believe this comparison is about as far from what we are discussing as Mercury and Pluto. I agree with your assessment of the situation in your example (well not really) but a nuclear blast in the middle of London is a "little" more serious than keeping hamburger out of McDonalds. Of course there are going to be pissed off people. There will be pissed off people no matter what action is taken, or even if no action is taken at all. And there may be a few deaths. Which action, or which non-action will result in the most deaths? That is the real question.
And we lose more and more rights every day in America, unfortunately at the hands of both parties. It sure would be fun to meet in a pub somewhere and discuss this shit over a good wheat beer! Many good debates happen over good brew, but of course many are also forgotten by sunrise.
[ September 05, 2002: Message edited by: VoidMain ]