Socialist or immature

[xyle_one]

quote:Originally posted by Calum: Member # 81:
interestingly, many people have waxed on about 'nineteen eighty four' by orwell and how prophetic it is/isn't but i find it interesting that orwell's 'animal farm' has turned out to be much more prophetic of late 20th century western civilisation, even though it is based on the first few decades of the soviet union's history.

huxley's brave new world got it pretty much spot on in a lot of ways too.another little known book with a lot of good predictions (this one from 1962) is 'the fifth planet' by fred and geoffrey hoyle, if you get the chance to read it.

you know. i havent read animal farm in like 10 years. i think i should read it again.

[Kintaro]

I have nothing against money, i have somthing against capitalism. I dont like people who just want to make more and more money and spend it on crap, we need laws to stop rich people from making life crap for others.

[Siplus]

what, exactly, are they doing to make the poor's life crap? having money? i didn't know b. gates was making my life horrible by having billions of dollars. it isn't his money that is harming me, it is his monopoly on the computer software industry

funny..."1984" reminds me of a socialist state more then a capitalist state. it's kind of like what the liberals are trying to do to the US (and what the communists want)

[flap]

Yes, because somehow liberals... are against freedom? That makes sense.

[papercut]

Sure you get to have a laptop and what not, but whats the point if you don't have time to use it.

Nazi germany, and Soviet Union weren't true socialist countries they were led by dictators. The soviet union had no freedom they didn't even get to choose their profession.

[billy_gates]

quote:Originally posted by Siplus: *Capitalist*:
what, exactly, are they doing to make the poor's life crap? having money? i didn't know b. gates was making my life horrible by having billions of dollars. it isn't his money that is harming me, it is his monopoly on the computer software industry

funny..."1984" reminds me of a socialist state more then a capitalist state. it's kind of like what the liberals are trying to do to the US (and what the communists want)

Same here.  If you want to think about rich people that aren't ruining our lives, just think about Steve Jobs.  I think he is a millionaire, but really, wut is the difference between 100's of millions and 60billion, there is no way you could spend either amount.  But back to the point, Steve makes our lives better, he makes sure the Mac OS gets made by his legions of programmers.  and the Mac OS makes people's lives better.  Because you lack the shit of Windows and lack the difficulty associated with most Linux Distros.  So there, that is a rich capitalist who makes our lives better.

[slave]

quote:So there, that is a rich capitalist who makes our lives better.  

Steve Jobs "makes our lives better" in the same way a benevolent Lord may treat his peasants better than some asshole who owns the castle down the street.  But we'd be much better off without the whole sapitalist system, just as we're better off now without feudalism.

[papercut]

But gates cheats his way into making more and more money he will never need/use. Jobs only made 1 cent or $1 last year, he doesn't scam his way into making more money he will never use.

[zoolooo]

Bingo!

Steve jobs makes better software and he is willing to do it for free, well $1.

Once again we see that if the motive is the task itself we get a better result than when the motive is money.

This is the point the socialist keep making!


On another topic: Rich people make your life crap because they produce nothing.  To keep them in luxury you have to produce a surplus - in practice, a little bit for you and a lot more for them.

If you didn't have to produce their cut you'd have more time to pursue the enriching things in life.

zooloo

[slave]

quote:Originally posted by zoolooo:
Bingo!

Steve jobs makes better software and he is willing to do it for free, well $1.

Once again we see that if the motive is the task itself we get a better result than when the motive is money.

This is the point the socialist keep making!


On another topic: Rich people make your life crap because they produce nothing.  To keep them in luxury you have to produce a surplus - in practice, a little bit for you and a lot more for them.

If you didn't have to produce their cut you'd have more time to pursue the enriching things in life.

zooloo

Wow, excellent point.

[Siplus]

quote: Sure you get to have a laptop and what not, but whats the point if you don't have time to use it.  

uh, i'm on my laptop right now--what do you mean i don't have time to use it  :confused:  

in case you people are unaware, you don't have to work 23 hours a day. i'm not quite sure how much my parents work, but it's probibly somewhere around 8 (i get about 10 hours a week, but i'm only in hs w/ a sucky part time job...)

 

quote: Once again we see that if the motive is the task itself we get a better result than when the motive is money.

no, actually, this is the first one i've seen. but i don't like macs, so it doesn't really do anything for me. i'm sure that there are many senerios where when "the motive is the task" will produce a better product, but when "the motive is money" there is much encentive (i'm not saying that is good, or bad)

[Kintaro]

How much pay does stallman get, NONE.

Steve Jobs is a nice guy, i'll have to have a beer and a chat with him one day.

And then theres torvalds, he does things for the hope of World Domination. But that doesnt bother me!

[billy_gates]

Actually I've heard that Steve is a real ass hole, in terms of his personal life. but that doesn't matter.  I also agree that money is a huge incentive for anything.  But it can be a problem, if for instance the amount of money is based on the speed of creation, then u will get crap.  However, if the amoung of money is based on hours or quality of prodcut then u get good results.  Also most people don't work all ends of their lives, and some things you use on your way to and from work.  Like a nice car, a nice stereo, an iPod or other MP3 player, cell phone, etc, etc.  So even in daily tasks you have extras that aren't required that make your life better because you spice up your drive, etc ,etc.

[zoolooo]

Name one useful invention/development that originated through the pure pursuit of profit.

All great inovations were done because the person was inclined/compelled to do it.  Money and profit is never a factor beyond funds to continue the work.

Those who make the profit are those who steal the ideas of others.

zooloo

[Calum]

you idiotic capitalists (a few posts up the page) who think that people who have too much money do not harm you should really think again.

what is it keeps your capitalist economy on the go? public spending! yes that's right kids, now you see that the more saving that is going on, the less spending there is, yes? now you can see that the richer one person is, the more saving that person will do (unless they are addicted to spending in which case they won't be stupidly rich for long).

The way that the economy is trying to deal with this is by putting most people who are not rich into permanent debt. you know that 75% of people in western countries are actually in debt? ridiculous.

so the richer the rich are, the faster the economy goes down the shitter. why do you think the US economy is so far in debt? capitalism, that's why.

i agree with X11, we need to cap income. above a certain rate i think that 100% should go to the state, this way it would give people an incentive to stop earning far too fucking much, and we would all be better off.

[ March 24, 2003: Message edited by: Calum: crusader for justice & peace ]