And you wonder why Linux is not Mainstream Like Windows is?

[Calum]

quote:Originally posted by willysnout:


I hear you. I guess what I'm saying is that, in the quest to run a 3-1/2 minute mile, I need to be sure I can walk to the grocery store. Windows will do that. In my own case, I doubt I'll get too involved with Linux until I know it can do the stuff I am doing now, just as easily and reliably as Windows does.

I know I sound like the MS salesman, but I'm not. All I'm saying is that if I want to write a letter and print it, Windows and Office will do that. I can send e-mails easily with Outlook. I manage my checkbook with Quicken and my taxes with Turbo Tax. I've got a nice little shareware program that displays photos. I've got Virus Scan, Black Ice Defender, Windows Washer and some other stuff for security.

Those are "basics." If that's not available and easily used in Linux, then I won't switch. Which I realize is no skin off your ass, but since this is a forum where people give their views I figured my thought process might be of interest. Most people here seem to have a level of knowledge that's more specialized than mine. What I'm trying to do is inject the perspective of a more typical user.

you make a lot of good points, but i still detect a bit of 'walk before i can run' in your typical computer user spiel. No offence intended, there btw...

Re: StarOffice, yes it is proprietary and is from Sun Microsystems. It does most of what MSWord does, as well as most of what WordPerfect does and a lot of other stuff too. Or so i have heard. Version 5.2 i think is still free from Sun, however we are now (two?) a version or so ahead and the current version costs. It will also run on windows. There is a free and open source version of this program called OpenOffice.org (guess where their homepage is!) and it basically does all the stuff that StarOffice does, bar a couple of features, but for free. It runs on basically any OS.

Now, i would recommend a dual boot setup for anybody in the position of needing windows results in a hurry, but wanting to use linux eventually. I found that that way worked (and is working) very well for me. With a major distro (such as mandrake or red hat) you can set up a dual boot very easily, and configure it just as easily once you have read the manual pages for the bootloader you are using. (you will likely not need to configure it though, since a pretty good config file will probably be written for you by the installer) This approach is what i recommend, and it does not cost a penny more than running windows on its own...

[willysnout]

quote:Originally posted by bazoukas:
And your problem is?

Read my whole post  and try to get my point. I think you are too sensitive for your own good.

I stand corrected. It's not Put-Downs 101. The 100-level classes are introductory level. I'd say Put-Downs 301. Pre-requisite: Introduction to Arrogance 101.

[willysnout]

quote:Originally posted by Calum:
you make a lot of good points, but i still detect a bit of 'walk before i can run' in your typical computer user spiel. No offence intended, there btw...

Absolutely I intend to walk before I can run. No apologies for it, either. Why should anyone feel guilty for having such an attitude? I don't want to experiment with linux and find my Explorer book marks destroyed, my Quicken files ruined, my Turbo Tax files destroyed, my Outlook files gone, etc., because of some basic mistake I made because I couldn't walk before I tried to run.

Normally, this kind of precautionary instinct would be a good thing. I don't understand why I should feel as if I've made a faux pax by wanting to be very careful, especially seeing as how I am not a computer specialist. I figure I ought to be aware of my limitations and work within them, especially in the beginning.

quote:Re: StarOffice, yes it is proprietary and is from Sun Microsystems. It does most of what MSWord does, as well as most of what WordPerfect does and a lot of other stuff too. Or so i have heard. Version 5.2 i think is still free from Sun, however we are now (two?) a version or so ahead and the current version costs. It will also run on windows. There is a free and open source version of this program called OpenOffice.org (guess where their homepage is!) and it basically does all the stuff that StarOffice does, bar a couple of features, but for free. It runs on basically any OS.

If you use Star Office, does it communicate back to Sun in any way about your usage of the program? Given their attitude about privacy (privacy doesn't exist, get used to it), my guard is up on this issue and I frankly don't want to patronize them if there is a good alternative. Funny thing about this is that there's nothing sensitive in my Word documents.

It's not like I'm trading child porn or writing terror plots. I just hate the idea of corporate big brother with a true passion. It's a form of arrogance, which is something I really detest. The idea that a CEO can declare that privacy is dead and we must get used to it is one of more most memorably outrageous things I've heard in quite a long time.

quote:Now, i would recommend a dual boot setup for anybody in the position of needing windows results in a hurry, but wanting to use linux eventually.

What is a "dual boot setup?"

quote: I found that that way worked (and is working) very well for me. With a major distro (such as mandrake or red hat) you can set up a dual boot very easily, and configure it just as easily once you have read the manual pages for the bootloader you are using.

What is a distro? I have heard of Red Hat, i.e., a company that make linux software, but what's "mandrake?" And what's a "bootloader?"

quote:(you will likely not need to configure it though, since a pretty good config file will probably be written for you by the installer) This approach is what i recommend, and it does not cost a penny more than running windows on its own...

A config file written by the installer. Could you explain this? I'm not sure what you're referring to. Maybe there's a book or web site that goes through all this basic terminology for those of us just getting started?

[the_black_angel]

ok you need to search on the net for a bit and start reading.

Dual boot setup - running two OSes on the same computer ie windows and Linux

distro - distribution

Red Hat is a version or "flavour" of Linux

Mandrake is an other flavour of Linux (held by alot of people to be the best version on Linux for new users)

bootloader - A program used to select what OS you want to boot into (ie lilo)

config file - tells a program how/what you want it to do.

The installer should take care of all the techniqual stuff for you, it should ask you if you what to dual boot(or something similiar) and just follow the on screen prompts  

I would suggest not using RedHat as it is primarily server software and is not designed for a workstation.

Also go to some Linux distro sites (ie www.mandrakelinux.com or www.redhat.com and look for documentation or similair)

hope this helps  

[willysnout]

quote:Originally posted by the_black_angel:
hope this helps    

It does. Thanks very much.

[Bazoukas]

quote:Originally posted by willysnout:


I stand corrected. It's not Put-Downs 101. The 100-level classes are introductory level. I'd say Put-Downs 301. Pre-requisite: Introduction to Arrogance 101.

 My God Man. LOLOL
Are you on weed? Where the hell did you see arrogance in my posts? Read my two first posts again if you will and try to see my point. If you feel the need though for power trips in the Internet well what can I say, you are special.

  Dont be such a sensitive jackass.
You dont sound like a moron so stop the moronic attitude here.

 By the way if you want a good book pick up. RedHat 7.3 Bible.
  It comes with RH7.3 (3 Cds) and all the starting help you will need. And as for applications, there are more in RH than you will ever need and they do work. You will see. From Word applications that can read MS WORD, graphics, DVD players and so on.

  Give it a try. Even if you dont like it, you have nothing to lose.
 And instalation is fast and easy no matter what kind of configuration you choose.
Just remember Linux does not work like Windows.
 

   Wanna  hug now? Am all for for hugs.

[Calum]

gakk!! i meant running before you can walk! sorry!            

of course you should walk before you can run! sorry about that!!    

Anyway, yes, mandrake and red hat are two companies who make their own operating systems and sell it. They also make free versions with all the pay software taken out of it. It is usually a GNU system with a linux kernel (this is the setup that most people refer to as "linux" nowadays). there are a lot of other companies who do this too. In addition to selling and giving away systems, they sell licences for different types of support for those systems. These licences are NOT required for these systems (unlike windows) but they help you get support right from the distributors.

re: bootloaders, okay, what you do is you set aside an area (a partition) of your hard drive and allow windows to stay installed on that bit, then you set aside a similar area and put linux on that. The mandrake installer helps you do this with an easy point/click tool and i think most other major distributors do too. It's best if you firsttly leave a few megabytes of free space between the two partitions, so windows doesn't screw your linux partition when you run defrag, and also it's best to have a third or fourth partition for your files,  to save you time when windows needs to scandisk (this idea probably needs more explanation but this is not the place) The bootloader is the thing that your computer reads when you switch the machine on, and gives you a choice of which of the systems you want to boot into. In practice a bootloader can be textual, point and click, have pictures or not, you might get a menu or have to type in the name of the system, and you (depending on the loader) can have as many different systems as you like (FreeBSD, NetBSD, DR-DOS, MSWindows3.11, WindowsNT, GNU/Hurd, GNU/Linux, Solaris 8) all on the same machine, if you have the disk space!

okay, more stuff next time, i need to go and do stuff! i hope this was of help too, willysnout...


ps - oh yes, and re: StarOffice spying on you, i think it's not really a worry, however if you want to completely eliminate this concern, then use OpenOffice.org instead. You can get it and its full info at http://openoffice.org
it runs on many systems including linux and windows, and it is free. It is based on SttarOffice but it is open source, so if there was any  spyware in itt, somebody would spot it quick, take it out and redistribute it. (this has not happened, and will not, since this reason is enough of a deterrant to make it not ever be tried, if you get my meaning).

[ August 07, 2002: Message edited by: Calum ]

[voidmain]

Willie, ran into a little "snag" with that DemoLinux link I gave you.  I saw two different ISO images on http://www.linuxiso.org/ for v3.01 of DemoLinux.  One had StarOffice and the other did not.  Well, I figured you would want to check out StarOffice as well so that's the one I suggested.  Well, it turns out the one with StarOffice is 700MB and the one without is 650MB. Now CDs are only capable of holding 650MB so I am confused about the StarOffice image unless it is meant to go on a DVD.  It doesn't really mention anything about it anywhere that I can find. All I know is I downloaded the 700MB image without paying much attention, wrote it to CD and of course it ran out of space on the CD.  Does anyone else know anything more about this 700MB DemoLinux CD?

At any rate, I wouldn't waste my time downloading that link I gave you before.  Here is the link to the 650MB CD image which I am downloading now and will hopefully get tested.  I seem to be getting very slow transfer rates to the DemoLinux server though:

http://www.linuxiso.org/download.php/338/demolinux-3.01-650.iso

Maybe the SuSe live CD eval would be a better way to go (another one I have no personal experience with but will also check out at some point).  Sorry about the run around.

[pkd_lives]

CD recordable media comes in 650MB and 700MB variants, as well as the 270MB(?) variant that is the mini disk.

[voidmain]

Ahhh, guess I've never seen the 700MB media.  I've only ever bought the 650's, guess I'm behind the times.  Thanks for the info!

[willysnout]

quote:Originally posted by bazoukas:
Where the hell did you see arrogance in my posts? <snip> Dont be such a sensitive jackass.
You dont sound like a moron so stop the moronic attitude here.

Res Ipsa Loquitor

[willysnout]

Calum, Void, pkd:

Thanks for the information in your postings. It is very helpful. The next several days are full of other activities for me, but I'll go do this stuff next week. BTW, my CD-Rs are 700Mb, so I think I'll be able to get the OS and the office program onto one CD.

Thanks again. I appreciate your help.

[voidmain]

No problem, but I also happen to notice that the version of StarOffice that comes on that CD is only version 5.2.  The new one is 6.0.  I personally never liked 5.2 because it has a funky integrated desktop that I thought was very clumsy.  The new version 6.0 is completely different, nearly identical to Microsoft Office.  So just keep that in mind.  As I mentioned, you might download the OpenOffice 1.0 for Windows which is the same thing as StarOffice 6.0. Wow, that's almost confusing....

And I'm still working on downloading that other DemoLinux CD so I can play along.. Guess it would have been quicker to go find some 700MB CDRWs...

[choasforages]

i have hardly ever seen 650mb cdr/w's anymore, and i think you can overburn 650 meg disc's anyway

[voidmain]

Well I had been buying them by the 100s but I haven't been using a lot lately so.. And these definitely would not burn to 700. Do you need a fairly new CDRW drive to be able to burn that much data?  I have two drives and the newest one is at least a couple of years old...