got my reply finally

[Stryker]

after much waiting i finally got my reply from my school district. I'm not exactly sure what to do about it, although I am open to suggestions.

 

quote:
John,
Thank you for your message and for thinking through the options so thoroughly.  Though I don't know you, you sound like quite an intelligent young man who has both skill and personal objectives.  And while I would very much like to support your request, I don't have the ability to allow for this to happen.  We cannot even accommodate teacher requests such as this, if we are to maintain security and standards for teh district that we can support, so although I truly appreciate your feelings, I am afraid that I cannot help you at this time.  This is much like when you will graduate from high school and subsequently college and go to work for a firm where you may need to conduct business in the manner that that company does, and not in the way that you might prefer.  I hope that you will understand and work your way through this, maintaining your principles and integrity, and just using the tools that we do have to offer you at the current time.  Most districts can't even offer the level of technology that we are providing, and I do hope that you are enjoying your CISCO class and all that it ahs to offer you.  Please feel free to contact me in the future should you have questions and thank you again for your inquiry,
Debbie
 
[email protected]
Technology Implementation Manager

-----Original Message-----
From: John [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:15 PM
To: X
Subject: requesting permission


I'm not exactly sure if it is necessary to request your, or anyone's, permission but I thought I better just to be sure. I'm a student at Mariner High School, and am terribly against Microsoft. They are one of the few things in this world I full heartedly hate. I hate they way they lie to the public, the way they force updates on me, the way their products are ridden with bugs, their incredible insecurity, and the contridictions I hear from them. So I choose not to use them. I am running Slackware 8.1 on my laptop, and would like to be able to use it at school with the same networking permissions as my peers. I have a computer class and I don't need any special software they have, I just need the web browser and a word processor. I have this stuff with slackware. I am asking you if I can use my laptop, plug it into the network, and do my everyday tasks. Such as saving my files on my "H Drive (\\ma1srv\%username%$)", and use the proxy server to access the cisco site. I do not need any special instructions for accessing my saved files on the network, but as for the cisco site I would need the address of the proxy server and the port it is running on. (http, https, socks). I do not feel my education should be altered because of my feelings for a company.
 
Thank you,
John

[slave]

How can they tell whether you are using Windows or Linux?  Why does it matter?

[rtgwbmsr]

quote: teh district

J00r sk00l i5 t3h l337|\|355!
But really, that is complete bullshit.

Although, you can get these things by 2 means:
1) Get something that autoscans on the network. Macs can usually sniff out servers pretty well, as can port scanners. I got my school's main server's IP by doing this.

2) Social Engineering. This is how I got what I know. Kiss ass, hang around the IT people. Copy down anything you see them type in...I got the firewall and proxy's IP by doing this.

I did this a while back in high school and again (not too long ago) in "higher education"    .

Good Luck!

[Pantso]

I'm a bit confused. Why did you need their permission to use Slack and how can they tell the difference? And most of all, why did you have to almost apologise for not using windows?   :rolleyes:

[Stryker]

My school is very protective of their computers and network. I'm not at all sorry for using windows, I don't see what gave you that idea. I thought I may have needed permission because of their over protection. Last year I sent a message to a friend, (net send) and a few days later I got yelled at. I logged on about an hour before school started and I had someone ask me why I was on. Last year I visited my own web page and the librarian got mad because it was a "misuse of their network". I'm going to reply with a few questions, mostly complain though. I'm not sure what to say though... I have to go though, be back later.

[raptor]

lol, for a professional the spelling errors are not business-like.

Damn Muki district

[mobrien_12]

quote:From a high school sysadmin:

I would very much like to support your request, I don't have the ability to allow for this to happen. We cannot even accommodate teacher requests such as this, if we are to maintain security and standards for teh district that we can support, so although I truly appreciate your feelings, I am afraid that I cannot help you at this time. This is much like when you will graduate from high school and subsequently college

Translation, with the diplomacy removed:  

I don't know about anything but Windows. I'm scared of things I don't know about, and I'm too lazy to learn about them.  I'm in charge, so the answer is no, and you better learn to live with it.

[ January 30, 2003: Message edited by: M. O'Brien ]

[avello500]

if this is a public school then i say you petition the governer with info on costs and security related issues. right now thgose items are very much in the forefront of governers minds. if they dictate it it should have no probs going thru. just make sure to include info on costs of upgrading to a real o/s. if your willing to put the time into it should work. if you get no response then goto the tv stations. one of the investigative reporters might like to find out why a teenager has more econmic and security sense than a paid government official.
just a thought.

[Stryker]

quote:Originally posted by avello500:
if this is a public school then i say you petition the governer with info on costs and security related issues. right now thgose items are very much in the forefront of governers minds. if they dictate it it should have no probs going thru. just make sure to include info on costs of upgrading to a real o/s. if your willing to put the time into it should work. if you get no response then goto the tv stations. one of the investigative reporters might like to find out why a teenager has more econmic and security sense than a paid government official.
just a thought.

not a bad idea, but how would i manage to contact the governor? he's a very busy man, and would pay little attention to a 16 year old high school student with a computer problem. Should I try right away to take it up to someone so high or gradually make my way from superintendent the mayor and then the governor? i'm not sure exactly how the schools are administered above the superintendent. but i really doubt i would be able to get ahold of the mayor. I sent another letter asking for someone who could allow me to (as she said she couldn't), if I don't get a decent response then i'll be doing something about it.

[Stryker]

and yet another one, now what should I do?
 

quote:
John,
I think that you may have misunderstood my words a bit.  I have the
authority but I cannot grant "access" for a foreign device and program
on our network.  It defeats our whole purpose of using standards and
security to protect our staff and students.   What I was trying to point
out was that as long as you need network access to complete assignments
or take computer classes like CISCO, you will NEED to use the tools that
we provide just like when you will work for an employer in the future.
And yes, you will need to choose your future employment destination
carefully given your strong feelings on the subject.  Conceptually, if
you don't take computer classes and you complete your assignments
without the use of our electronic storage, you won't need to log onto
our network and use Microsoft products, but if you partake in these
activities, then you will need to use our tools while on our network.
In other words, if you can complete your assignments using your own
software (in printed version) and if that is acceptable to your
teachers.  I am sorry that this may cause you some grief and hope that
you can see your way clear to minimize your use and conform only when
absolutely necessary.
Thank you for your consideration in this matter,
Debbie

    -----Original Message-----
    From: John [mailto:[email protected]]
    Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 6:18 PM
    To: Truax
    Subject: Re: requesting permission
   
   
    You say you do not have the ability to allow this, can you give
me a name and e-mail address of someone who can? Considering I do not
agree to the Microsoft Windows 2000 EULA, I am not legally capable of
using it. I have provided myself with an alternate means. I do not see
the difference between the injured using the elevator and me using
linux. I'm not asking you to provide me anything, I'm not asking for
anything nobody else has. I can understand the teacher's requests
though, they have to use the gradebook program and keep track of absense
(which is through http as i understand). As for your analogy of
employment, I will refuse to work for anyone who forces me into
something like this. But in this case, I am here because the law says I
have to be (i want to go to school and college, dont get me wrong) and I
do not have any other option. But for this particular case, Windows
2000's performance is not what I have a problem with. I find it
incredibly insecure and their company's morals are just terrible. But
reading the EULA, I do not agree with it. I know it's pointless to sit
here and write most of this to you, as you have said that you cannot
help me in this situation. But can I get ahold of someone who can? Thank
You.
   
    John
     

[Pantso]

quote:Originally posted by Stryker:
My school is very protective of their computers and network. I'm not at all sorry for using windows, I don't see what gave you that idea. I thought I may have needed permission because of their over protection. Last year I sent a message to a friend, (net send) and a few days later I got yelled at. I logged on about an hour before school started and I had someone ask me why I was on. Last year I visited my own web page and the librarian got mad because it was a "misuse of their network". I'm going to reply with a few questions, mostly complain though. I'm not sure what to say though... I have to go though, be back later.

You misunderstood my post a bit. What I said was that your letter, especially at the beginning, gave me the impression that you were almost apologizing for not using windows. Sorry I can't express it any better but English is not my native language.  

[avello500]

if you need to contact any government official you should be able to thru snail mail. they should have the phone number and address in the phone book.
they may have a email listed on your specific state website. also the superintendant of schools may be of help.
from what i see of your correspondence is that they are concerned with security. my advice: never argue a mute point with someone totally ignorant of the facts.
if,when you contact someone higher  dont argue your opinions for they are meanigless is this situation. what you need is hard data. i suggest you research just how secure linux is, and how insecure m$ is. that way if you get an audiance with a higher up you have proof to show this guy doesnt know his job.
also i would talk with an attorney, after all this school is forcing you to break the law.
if all else fails goto the media, with your research ready, and tell them about the law issue, when the MAN comes back with security issues you will be prepared.
may the swartz be with you!